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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

C22 vs C25 Swing Keel

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Lori T
Deckhand

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Initially Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:20:49

Hi All,

I am continuing to consider/look for a C25, I love just about everything about it, but something has come up on my c-22 list from a former 25 owner that has me concerned.

Let me preface by saying that I need a swing keel for my shallow bay (Barnegat Bay, for those who might know); it would be very limiting for me to get a fixed keel, and pretty much out of the question cost wise to get a wing keel.

Are the issues with a swing keel (cast iron, hardware maintenance, etc) pretty much the same, save for working with an additonal 1000 lbs? I am especially talking about in a heavy weather situation. With my C22, the keel doesn't slam into the truck wall in heavy wave action (something I avoid, but it happens), although I generally do not lock it down. I am now hearing that the C25 swing, even maintained properly, has the potential of slamming enough into the trunk in such a situation, with obvious catastrophic tendencies. Do the C25 keel trunks tend to become water logged over time? I did see the great Tech tip about the repair, is this common??

Thanks for any input!

Lori
C22 "Carpe Diem", Forked River, NJ

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:45:48

This line of thread has been talked about alot here. Im sure your going to get plenty of feed back on your question. I dont beleve the C-25 swing is a big problem in moderate seas. Heavy seas is a relative term. I think though if they arent causing the C-22's Keel to swing they will probably cause the C-25's to move even less. With care and good seamanship I would feel safe. If worse comes to worse the sails should come down and the keel up. Head for shelter.

Doug&Ruth
Boatless in Seattle
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2002 : 14:26:08

..."Let me preface by saying that I need a swing keel for my shallow bay (Barnegat Bay, for those who might know); it would be very limiting for me to get a fixed keel..." Lori

The actual difference in draft requirements between the swing and fixed fin boat is only about a foot(3 foot rudder draft) when the swing keel is retracted, but the swing keel draft, when deployed, is a foot greater than the fin.

<img src="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bro79-4.jpg" border=0>

In my sailing area the water level has been a little low for a couple of years now. When I was sailing my old swinger, I would occasionally thump the soft bottom with my swing keel because of it's deeper draft. My present boat is a C25 fin, and I've never thumped the bottom while sailing due to it's shallower sailing draft.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
Catalina

Edited by - dlucier on 10/25/2002 14:29:48

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2002 : 15:18:46

Hi Lori,
I use to own a C-22 and now own a C-25. I'll talk a little of my experiences with both.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Are the issues with a swing keel (cast iron, hardware maintenance, etc) pretty much the same, save for working with an additonal 1000 lbs?
 I was able to remove the C22 keel (for fairing and painting) with confidence. The C-25 keel would require a bit more skill to remove safely. I got around this by cutting off the keel channel on the trailer and lowering the keel down onto the trailer frame (with proper bracing mind you.) This gave me access to the trailing edge for refinishing. Keel cable maintenance and related hardware is straight-forward and critical.

I am especially talking about in a heavy weather situation. With my C22, the keel doesn't slam into the truck wall in heavy wave action (something I avoid, but it happens), although I generally do not lock it down. I am now hearing that the C25 swing, even maintained properly, has the potential of slamming enough into the trunk in such a situation, with obvious catastrophic tendencies.
You'll usually find OJ in her slip when the winds are below 10 knots. We were disappointed in the C22s heavy weather performance - too easily over powered. The C25 on the other hand really comes alive at about 15 knots and above. We've never had anyone say anything about keels slamming in heavy weather on various bodies of water. The most common complaint is the hole in the keel that the bronze pin passes through enlargens over time and the keel will clunk when the boat is hit by a wake when anchored. We've had a couple of C22s at our marina have their keel cables let go with no apparent damage. If the keel cable lets go with the keel raised on a C25 the results are catastrophic. This event can easily prevented with proper maintenance and leaving the keel lowered except when necessary.

Do the C25 keel trunks tend to become water logged over time? I did see the great Tech tip about the repair, is this common??
The C25 keel trunks are fiberglass so I'm not sure where the water-logged issue is coming from. Perhaps you're referring to the mast compression post that had to be replaced because it was rotted?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Steve Madsen
#2428
OJ (Ode to Joy)

[url="http://catalina25-250.org/photo0.htm/"]<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/ode075.jpg" border=0>[/url]

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Lori T
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 10/25/2002 : 19:29:09

Steve, the waterlogged thought came after the discussion on the pitfalls of a c25 swing keel on my c22 list, where it was said that wave action, especially in windy conditions, bangs the keel into the trunk and was inviting a disaster. I'd assume that if that were true, eventually the fiberglass would crack and there would be water seepage (And I saw how this was fixed on Dragon Tail in your Tech tips), or cause a bigger problem down the road. While my C22 doesn't do that, I was curious if this person's observation of his former boat was not unique in the general C25 community.

I do like the C25 fin idea, now that you put it that way, Don...I actually only raise my keel a tad when/if I bump the bottom, so that would work out. And the thought of reduced maintenance is highly appealing!

I may try renting a C25 locally in the spring and see how she feels compared to my C22. Or if anyone ever needs crew in the NJ area, I'll provide lunch :-).

Thanks for all your input, back to my spot in the corner till I'm a real owner...

Lori

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2002 : 12:51:48

Hi Lori:
You might also want to consider if your going to trailer. You will need a much larger vehicle. The boat/trailer combo can come in at up to 7000lbs to 11000lbs depending on gear and trailer weight. One thing is for sure the C-25 is way more boat than the C-22. The cabin alone is huge in comparison.

Doug&Ruth
Boatless in Seattle
Tacoma Wa.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2002 : 19:38:49

Lori,
If trailerability is an issue for you - you may want to read the thread started by Loren Souers comparing C25s to C250s which includes discussion regarding trailering swing verses fixed keel C25s.

Be forwarned, however, that thread is not for the weak of heart.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.