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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Capri 25 Specific Forum

Making things simplier

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leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/06/2009 : 13:28:55

I'm continually trying to make the amount of crew that I need less and also to make the expertise of the crew also less. Last year I added a chutescoop which has made a huge improvement in our ability to use the spinnaker while racing. I'm planning next year and thinking about maybe using my roller furler more (I installed it so that I could single hand the boat). Presently I have my 110% jib cut to fit the roller. I'm thinking of cutting the 140% so that it also can go on the roller. My logic being that if I can use the roller furler I can make transitions to and from the spinnaker easier. I'm concerned about the spinnaker getting wrapped in the roller furler. Does anyone have any insight on this?

Thanks in advance.

LeeBitts
1981 Capri 25 Hull # 142
Sailing in NH and Maine

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2009 : 08:16:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by leebitts
 I'm concerned about the spinnaker getting wrapped in the roller furler. Does anyone have any insight on this?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I dont have any experience with a RF on the CP25, but had one on my CP26 with an a-sail. As long as the spin was drawing well, no issues with the spin catching up in the RF.

On the CP25 with a sym kite, you dont have the tack of the spin near the tack of the RF, so there should be even less issue. Just make sure the spin is full before rolling the headsail on the set, and make sure it's not flogging when you unroll before the douse.

One caveat tho - that's for a straight spin. I'm not familiar with how much material remains at the top of the stick with the chutescoop, so there could be issues with THAT getting caught up in the RF moreso than the spin.

I'm not a fan of RF for racing (kills the headsail shape, and CP25s are "front-wheel drive" boats), but if it's between that and not getting out - go for it!

Jim

Edited by - on

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2009 : 11:07:37

I'll second what SailCO26 says about the roller furling. When I bought my boat the first thing I did was research roller furling. After talking to some sail makers and other racers I decided for the Capri 25 I'd stick with the foil and I bought the Harken carbo foil. I've been happy with the decision so far, though I concede the foredeck work is trickier. As for the chutescoop, I've been studying that concept because we race very short leg courses and being able to launch and douse the spinnaker effectively and rapidly is essential. The only thing that bothers me about the chutescoop is all of the bunched up material at the top of the mast while the spinnaker is deployed. I seem to have a lot of tangles with my halyards at the top of the mast raising and lowering sails and bunching up the chutescoop up there bothers me. It may just be the lack of experience in my foredeck crew, but we have had some nasty tie ups with the spinnaker and genoa halyards.

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leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2009 : 20:21:56

I'm trying to figure out how to upload an image. I have a great shot of LeeBitts during a race last summer with the spinnaker up and the chutescoop placement. I think it is attached. My boat is originally from wyc.org, The PO never said, but I think I figured out the boat was once called "White Lightning". I look forward to being able to compete at the WYC level, but neither me or my crew is there now. The chutescoop really makes the spinnaker possible given my green crew. I am amazed at the mess we could make before using it. The transition of spinnaker up is pretty sweet with it, I want the spinnaker down as smooth which is why I'm trying to sort out using rf to ease that. I bought the rf so that I could single hand the boat or sail with my wife and handicapped daughter, when we race, we use either the 140 or my 155, not on the roller. I'm still trying to to figure out if I could use less race crew with the roller. Make sense?

Charlie

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joearcht
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2009 : 07:31:00

I understand your need for simplicity and the RF certainly addresses that concern. I'm not knowledgeable enough to gauge how much if any significant performance loss is inherent with that change. I know many more modern designs use roller furling as standard hardware (J-80 comes to mind). I'm still curious about the chutescoop. it appears from the picture that the head of the spinnaker is not all of the way tight to the block at the top of the mast. I always hoist my spinnaker as high and as far as the halyard will let me. I'm I seeing this correctly, or is the head of your spinnaker just "embedded" in the chutescoop? I may not be setting the spinnaker correctly either, I just don't know. Maybe setting the head off of the top block a certain distance improves the performance, does anybody have an opinion on this?

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2009 : 08:29:03

Charlie:

I agree with Joe, it appears that the spin is not fully deployed in your pic. For beercan racing that might not be much of an issue, but for anything anywhere near the WYC level I think that would need to be resolved.

Again I'm not that familiar with how the scoop really works, but possibly you could ease the halyard somewhat and get the rest of the spin functioning? That would also increase the likelihood of oscillations/rolling, tho.

On that note Joe, next time you have the spin all the way up in fairly flat water - look to see which way the kite is trying to pull. If it's pulling to ww (toward the pole), try easing the spin halyard about 6-8". This will slide it a bit more out from behind the main and expose more sail shoulder to wind. If the boat start rolling, trim it back on.

Re J/80s: Yes, they use a RF headsail (one of the intents of the fleet was to be easily crewed to encourage family participation), but it's also a OD boat so ALL J/80s use RF. Even if you race PHRF, the RF on a J/80 is accounted for - not the case with the CP25.

Jim

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leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2009 : 18:47:53

Yikes, you guys are hard core! I'll keep listening, asking questions, paying my dues and contributing when I can.

I never looked at that picture with that much detail. I race with what I guess is a "friendly" group. As the spinnaker was set that day I passed about 10 boats on the downwind leg. Most folks in my group do not fly spinnakers so even not totally going it's better than using a whisker pole.

The note about the J80 is timely. My son approached me and suggested that we partner on one. Looking to have my future grandchildren around us I'm ok with that, but suggested that he could get a camp near ours and if he wanted to split a boat, he could finish the upgrades to LeeBitts that should be done. I'm open to a boat name change.

My question is still the same, maybe the racing light weights like me have some insight. With Green crew will using my roller furler with my spinnaker present a problem?

Just a guy that loves owning a boat that looks really hot and goes really fast!

Edited by - on

Crunkinator
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2009 : 20:15:52

I'm with you leebits. It's fun to run circles around all those expensive, impressive cruisers with a $250 boat. No racing for me, just have a blast all year long. I do wish, however, I had someone to sail with who knows more about a Capri 25 because I'm ignorant to a lot of it's features. For example: my other boat, a Buccaneer 240, has a cable attached to the backstay to support the boom with the main sail down. The CP25 support cable goes to the masthead so does it stay connected when sailing or not? And what are all those lines on the boom? Not a clue here. I have fun but still a lot to learn.

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2009 : 22:12:21

2 can race the boat with the spinnaker and win, I have personally seen it done several times. The wire coming down from the top of the mast is the topping lift for the boom, it's there to help with a couple of things

1. Light wind keep it attached to help hold the boom up,, 2 to 5 knts.
2. Raising the main sail
3. Lowering the main sail
4. Holding the boom at the dock

remove it in 5knts and up

the lines hanging out of the boom are:

1. Outhaul for main sail- starboard
2. Single line reef point- port

outhaul is used to help flatten the foot of the sail and move the draft in the sail aft.
Light air leave the outhaul all the way off. The wind picks up you will:

1. Tighten the outhaul
2. Flatten the main with the backstay.
3. Tighten the main halyard to flatten the main.

The standard reefing setup is a single line that runs thru the reefing hole in the main and back to the boom, and the cunningham hook forward at the mast.

The Capri 25 I's a easy boat to learn sail shape and shifting gears.

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Crunkinator
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2009 : 22:29:40

Thanks Capri25.
I'll try those tips soon, but not sure how much it will help. My main is so stretched and baggy I can have all three sides pulled tight and the center still looks like a spinnaker. My short term goal is to get a fairly decent main and long term to get a new one. Thanks for the insight. It helps more than you know.

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2009 : 07:39:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by leebitts
 With Green crew will using my roller furler with my spinnaker present a problem?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I dont think quality of the crew will be the issue, but looking at the pic posted earlier I'd be concerned that the sock would get caught up in the RF gear. It doesnt look like there would be enough lift on the spin to get it out of the way, unless the luff of the headsail were significantly shorter than standard.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just a guy that loves owning a boat that looks really hot and goes really fast!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Amen!

Jim

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2009 : 07:45:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by leebitts
 The note about the J80 is timely. My son approached me and suggested that we partner on one. Looking to have my future grandchildren around us I'm ok with that, but suggested that he could get a camp near ours and if he wanted to split a boat, he could finish the upgrades to LeeBitts that should be done. I'm open to a boat name change.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I crew on a J/80 occasionally for weekend regattas when I'm not racing the Bus. A VERY different boat from the CP25; but fun, fast and reasonably easy to sail. In big winds you might consider not flying the kite with green crew as it loads up pretty good, but will absolutely SCOOT across the water (right up until it broaches, at least - you're always fastest right before the crash!).

While faster and (maybe) more fun than a CP25, they're also much more expensive!

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