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KiteKraemer
Navigator

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191 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/14/2009 : 10:34:29

http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-16256.html

I'm glad this isn't my baby; but any speculations on how this might have happened?
The marina was frozen solid recently with sub-zero temps for about 1 week.
I was thinking there might have been some water in the hull that when it froze, cracked it?

Unicorn
78•C25•SK
Hood River, Oregon
http://www.eclipsefilms.com/unicorn.jpg

Edited by - KiteKraemer on 12/14/2009 10:35:36

Rich P
1st Mate

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USA
77 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2009 : 12:12:47

Probably froze a seacock and cracked it. Once dethawed, the water started to flow.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2009 : 12:13:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KiteKraemer
 ...The marina was frozen solid recently with sub-zero temps for about 1 week. I was thinking there might have been some water in the hull that when it froze, cracked it?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I suspect a thru-hull with water in it froze and cracked--then thawed. (Simultaneous posts.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/14/2009 12:27:32

Elliott
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2009 : 13:20:12

What do you do to ensure you have all the water out of a through-hull? I only have the one from the sink drain on Voodoo Krewe. Plus, it's unlikely for Lake Pontchartrain to ever freeze, but just wondering.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2009 : 14:07:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Probably froze a seacock and cracked it. Once dethawed, the water started to flow <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK, I'd also like to know how to ensure that the plumbing is fee of water, and as long as the water is not under pressure and has someplace to go, as in up, towards the sink or head, how could it pop a pipe?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2009 : 14:31:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 ...and as long as the water is not under pressure and has someplace to go, as in up, towards the sink or head, how could it pop a pipe?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It freezes from the cold air in the hull, probably from the top down toward the seacock. Eventually, at the seacock, it's expanding in all directions with incredible force (likely over 100,000 lbs. per square inch) and no place to go. The seacock might be turned off, but when its body bursts, the game's over.

If there will be freezing temps in the hull while it's in the water, I'd pour some RV antifreeze down your drains, letting it flow out of the thru-hulls, and turn off the seacocks as it's flowing so antifreeze remains in the lines but most water has been purged.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/14/2009 14:41:32

Ed Cassidy
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Response Posted - 12/14/2009 : 14:31:50

Water expands as it reaches freezing. It doesn't expand as a balloon might; it expands like swelling wood does.

Edited by - on

Elliott
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2009 : 08:37:31

Okay, the hippie question:
Are there environmentally friendly versions of anti-freeze? Since I'll be pouring it directly into the lake, only briefly touching the inside of the sink drain, I don't really want to intentionally poison the water, if I can help it.

It seems to me like there should be a non-chemical way to do it, also.

Just brainstorming a little bit, it should be possible to blow all the water out with air and close the through-hull while there is positive air pressure, preventing any water from coming back up the line any significant distance. Of course, you would want the air source to be low-pressure to prevent bursting the drain with air while trying to protect it from bursting with ice. I'm thinking the kind of pump you use to inflate an airbed when you go camping should work great, right off of the cigarette lighter style plug next to the sink.

The only trick will be to develop a fitting that seals between the pump and the drain. To do this, I think I'll get a standard, rubber drain plug and drill the right size hole through it for the pump hose, a little tight to ensure a good seal.

Edited by - Elliott on 12/15/2009 08:40:06

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2009 : 09:50:58

Air is actually a reasonable approach. Anything in solution would eventually diffuse out, leaving you unprotected. Keep in mind that the icebox drain "T"'s into the sink drain above the seacock, so you would want to see bubbles coming up in the water to be sure that the flap valve is patent and you're not just blowing air from the sink drain to the icebox drain.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2009 : 10:22:00

With a proper through hull, the ball valve can be closed and the hose disconnected. That would leave only about 1" of water in the through hull outside of the valve. You could then re-attach the drained hose.
Alcohol is the only environmentally friendly anti-freeze I know of, but I don't what kind you would use. I don't know scotch from bourbon.
If that boat had an inboard engine it could even have been the stuffing box that failed.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2009 : 10:41:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Elliott
 Okay, the hippie question:
Are there environmentally friendly versions of anti-freeze? Since I'll be pouring it directly into the lake, only briefly touching the inside of the sink drain, I don't really want to intentionally poison the water, if I can help it...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The propylene glycol antifreezes (pink stuff for RVs and boats) are labeled "Non-toxic" and "Environmentally friendly", and are safe to use to winterize drinking water systems. You can use your own judgement about the lake. Ethylene glycol (engine antifreeze) is a whole different matter.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2009 : 11:36:20

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5412 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2009 : 18:31:08

If you were so inclined, you might try to put champagne corks in your through hull drains and fill them with cheap vodka or propylene glycol. Trick is, getting the corks into the thru hulls!

After the yard put my boat up on the hard, I filled my water system with the pink stuff and pumped it through the spigots, ran it down the drains (including the ice box drain) and a little bit came out of the thru hull which I caught with a bucket.

I've wrapped the boat in tarps, so I have not seen any water leaking into the boat down below, but you never know.

I stop by the yard a few times a week to make sure water's not getting in or collecting anywhere (I can see, anyway).

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2009 : 18:22:44

This place might be a good source for re-float bags if your boat sinks.
http://www.subsalve.com/emergency.htm

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2009 : 19:00:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 If you were so inclined, you might try to put champagne corks in your through hull drains and fill them with cheap vodka or propylene glycol.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">100 proof vodka is 50% water, and the alcohol in it evaporates much more quickly than the water... As antifreeze, it makes a good joke, and frozen plumbing.

Edited by - on

Elliott
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 11:38:58

So, either a drinking water system antifreeze or air seem to be the best. The statements about the ice box puzzle me, though. I'm not sure where that is. Is there an ice box on the Capri, or just on the cruisers?

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 12:51:03

My boat stays in the water up til November, and we can get freezing weather as early as September. I just get a gallon or two of rv antifreeze and run it through the head and through the freshwater system. Only takes a few minutes.
It's non-toxic, and doesn't leave an aftertaste (atleast not in the freshwater system. Haven't tasted the other...)

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5412 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 20:29:01

In the spring, I pump the pink antifreeze out of the water system and put it back into the original bottle and save it for the next winter season.

Afterward, I put about 2 gallons of water into the tank, let the water swish around with the waves and then I pump it out through both faucet/pump handles. Once it's cleared out, I rinse it out again and pump that out.

Then I fill the tank with 10 gallons of water that I use for washing only. I carry bottles of drinking water in a milk crate stored under the dinette seats. I use four old Arizona Iced Tea screwcap bottles to carry drinking water and water for cooking. (I've seen the tank under the starboard settee - yuck!)

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2009 : 21:42:22

Here's one handy trick from the RV world:
If you end up with an aftertaste in your water lines (either from antifreeze, bleach, or other causes) run a tank of water through with about a half cup of baking soda in it. That'll remove any odors or tastes.

Edited by - on

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