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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

After Market Shore Power

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2010 : 10:08:01

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100661447/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah I already have something like this

Which I plug in and run an extension cord through the front hatch. I'd like something a bit less steal-able that plugs to the side of the boat.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2010 : 07:15:58

I have used one of those and it worked great. I used to run multiple fans in my sail locker and that was how I did it. Just remember to push the button!
Theft has never been an issue at my club, the worst thing that happens is your garden hose ends up a couple of boats away! Anyway, the cheap socket I listed above does just fine as long as what you use in the boat does not exceed 20 amps... and it won't. It is great fun to have offshore rated shore power but let's face it the only reason it is on little boats like the 25 is because that is the parts the manufacturer has on hand for the big boats they build. A Catalina 25 does not need a 30 amp system. I think the way to err on the safe side is with quality 10 gauge cord, if it is good enough for a contractor it is good enough for a 25.

Edited by - pastmember on 03/19/2010 07:28:38

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2010 : 08:49:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 Maybe someone needs to draw a schematic showing breakers, receptacles and color coded wire from pier to boat and to 3 receptacles

????

NCBrew
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I did just that and you can see my setup at:
www.blackpearl.vacationinnc.com

I will include photos as soon as I finish my installation.

NCBrew

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2010 : 11:41:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 My friend's Hunter 25.5 was wired with chopped 10 gauge extension cord wire and regular outlets with a GF at the first spot. It works fine and no one is going to die. The cord is color coded and easy to work with.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Although I hesitate to step back into this discussion, I can't help but note how potentially dangerous this set up is IF the shore power circuit breaker on the land is rated at 30 amps. The 10 gauge extension cord is just fine. But then connecting this wire to a 20 or even 15 amp device is not a good idea.
Its what I said in the beginning of this thread. The circuit breaker protects THE WIRE AND DEVICES!! Its not a switch. It does not protect the connected loads. If you have a 30 amp breaker you had better have wire rated for 30 amps (like 10 gauge) AND 30 amp rated devices. Otherwise you run the risk of the breaker not breaking if the device itself gets overloaded. Will that happen?? Probably not with the connected loads you describe. Also if the shore based breaker is only rated at 20 amps. You are good to go. But I doubt it is. So in this setup the wire is protected but the outlets themselves are not when connected to a 30 amp source.

Likewise the setup that NCBrew describes on his website. This is a 20 amp receptacle, you can tell by the pin configuration. If the shore breaker is a 30 amp breaker the receptacle is NOT rated for that amperage. You are running a risk. Now will his setup ever draw 30 amps? Again probably not, because this time he has the load side protected by a 20 amp breaker. But what happens if he gets a short within his breaker box on board? Again, if the shore breaker is rated at 20 amps, he's good to go. However if he were to replace the inlet with an inlet rated at 30 amps and ran 10 gauge wire from the inlet to the breaker box he would be to code and fully protected. The wiring diagram on the site is exactly correct for showing the wiring downstream of the breaker box 20 amp breaker.

This was my original observation from the original post. The poster showed connecting the outlets in the boat directly to the 30 amp breaker on the boat. These were 20 amp outlet devices and may or may not have been 20 amp rated wire. The rule is, EVERYTHING downstream of a breaker MUST be rated at the amperage of the breaker up to and including the device (this does not mean that the things you plug into the device has to be rated at this rate. Connected loads are wired at what the appliance will draw). This means both the wire and the devices. Otherwise you run the risk of being able to apply a load larger than either the device or the wire can handle before the breaker trips.

Below are two wiring diagrams. In both diagrams we assume the inlet is a 30 amp rated inlet (although this isn't the exact symbol for such - sorry my diagramming software has limitations). They also assume that you are going from the inlet to the shore with a 30 amp rated cord and that the shore breaker is rated at 30 amps. The first one shows how you would wire using a 30 amp main breaker. The second one shows how you could do this with only smaller individual circuit breakers. My diagrams show a circuit for outlets and another for a battery charger.

With a 30 amp main:

Without a 30 amp main:

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2010 : 17:57:35

Our club has 20 amp shore power, how about Ray Hubard?

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2010 : 07:12:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 My friend's Hunter 25.5 was wired with chopped 10 gauge extension cord wire and regular outlets with a GF at the first spot. It works fine and no one is going to die. The cord is color coded and easy to work with.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Although I hesitate to step back into this discussion, I can't help but note how potentially dangerous this set up is IF the shore power circuit breaker on the land is rated at 30 amps. The 10 gauge extension cord is just fine. But then connecting this wire to a 20 or even 15 amp device is not a good idea.
Its what I said in the beginning of this thread. The circuit breaker protects THE WIRE AND DEVICES!! Its not a switch. It does not protect the connected loads. If you have a 30 amp breaker you had better have wire rated for 30 amps (like 10 gauge) AND 30 amp rated devices. Otherwise you run the risk of the breaker not breaking if the device itself gets overloaded. Will that happen?? Probably not with the connected loads you describe. Also if the shore based breaker is only rated at 20 amps. You are good to go. But I doubt it is. So in this setup the wire is protected but the outlets themselves are not when connected to a 30 amp source.

Likewise the setup that NCBrew describes on his website. This is a 20 amp receptacle, you can tell by the pin configuration. If the shore breaker is a 30 amp breaker the receptacle is NOT rated for that amperage. You are running a risk. Now will his setup ever draw 30 amps? Again probably not, because this time he has the load side protected by a 20 amp breaker. But what happens if he gets a short within his breaker box on board? Again, if the shore breaker is rated at 20 amps, he's good to go. However if he were to replace the inlet with an inlet rated at 30 amps and ran 10 gauge wire from the inlet to the breaker box he would be to code and fully protected. The wiring diagram on the site is exactly correct for showing the wiring downstream of the breaker box 20 amp breaker.

This was my original observation from the original post. The poster showed connecting the outlets in the boat directly to the 30 amp breaker on the boat. These were 20 amp outlet devices and may or may not have been 20 amp rated wire. The rule is, EVERYTHING downstream of a breaker MUST be rated at the amperage of the breaker up to and including the device (this does not mean that the things you plug into the device has to be rated at this rate. Connected loads are wired at what the appliance will draw). This means both the wire and the devices. Otherwise you run the risk of being able to apply a load larger than either the device or the wire can handle before the breaker trips.

Below are two wiring diagrams. In both diagrams we assume the inlet is a 30 amp rated inlet (although this isn't the exact symbol for such - sorry my diagramming software has limitations). They also assume that you are going from the inlet to the shore with a 30 amp rated cord and that the shore breaker is rated at 30 amps. The first one shows how you would wire using a 30 amp main breaker. The second one shows how you could do this with only smaller individual circuit breakers. My diagrams show a circuit for outlets and another for a battery charger.

With a 30 amp main:

Without a 30 amp main:

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thank you Skrenz:

When I asked if some knowledgeable person could provide a schematic I was told to "Buy a book" and this is not "Catalina Specific".

Your drawings are great. Thanks again.

NCBrew

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2010 : 08:18:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew

When I asked if some knowledgeable person could provide a schematic I was told to "Buy a book" and this is not "Catalina Specific".

Your drawings are great. Thanks again.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

yes, that was my suggestion. I recommend you still do so.

For instance, one of an earlier poster's wiring diagram seemed a bit strange, because he connected his green ground wire downstream of the his first-in-line GFCI outlet. Steve's wiring diagrams look very professional and his discussions are first rate (although he & I had a terminology discussion as you may recall).

I can tell you how I did it on my boat. But I would no longer "get" s wiring diagram from someone else and blindly employ it than I would anything else in boating or in life. I'd want to learn as much as I could about it myself before I employed it. Yes, there are some basics that Steve described quite well.

So please be careful before you go out and "copy" because "it's easy to get on the internet."

Your boat, your choice.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2010 : 10:57:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew...I was told to "Buy a book" and this is not "Catalina Specific"...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">yes, that was my suggestion. I recommend you still do so.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I was the other one, and I agree. I don't question Steve's veracity, but this is serious stuff. You need to know about the proper components (including wire), the proper connections, and the proper overall design. We only want you and your boat to be safe.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2010 : 15:36:32

Peter, Good luck with the project. My 30A fuse is mounted on the fuse panel and the shore power plug and interior plugs in placed as shown below. I have dual batteries charged by the Xantrax unit shown. For my interior physical socket, I used a landscape outlet with GFCI from Lowe's, so that I didn't have to cut a large, flush mount hole in my boat, just two screws. When the shore power is plugged in, I can run all my cabin lights and the batteries are perpetually topped off.

Edited by - windsong on 03/21/2010 15:45:55

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2010 : 11:16:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Our club has 20 amp shore power, how about Ray Hubard?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not sure, I guess I'll need to find out. I would suspect it's whatever is standard.

Edited by - on

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