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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Cabin Wet After a Storm?

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oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/15/2010 : 21:14:35

I am in the pursuit of a Catalina 25. I am going to look at one next weekend. The owner has told me a little about it - and I am concerned with the the following:

After some big rain storms (the boat is kept on a small lake) the cabin is wet inside. The owner sort of dismissed this and I am wondering how unusual this is and what may be causing it. I was assuming that the cabin should be pretty water tight.

I'm heading over to look at it this weekend and wondered what to look for that may be causing it.

Thanks,

Jared

Jared Cruce
1997 250WK "Inspiration"
#299
Honda 9.9
Ashland, OR

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5416 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 21:50:17

Several places could be leaking:
the mast step bolts;
the chainplates;
the stanchion bolts;
the windows or
the companionway crib boards could be at fault.

Get a flair-type water-based pen, and make a mark in an inconspicuous location near the item in question.

Best way to tell is to wiggle the stanchions and pour some water on them,
run a cup of water along the top edge of each window,
swamp the top of the chainplates,
or splash a large cup of water on the mast step

Look at the water based pen marks you made.
You're sure to see something.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5416 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 21:51:00

Also, check the keel bilge for water!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 22:22:57

I make a point of being aboard during a heavy rain periodically. I just traced a small, persistent leak in the quarterberth to the starboard scupper in that manner. Fortunately, the leak was only an ounce or so after a day long heavy rain, so I don't need to replace scuppers until I go home. A lot of rain can blow in through hatch board vents and the gaps at the top (check Frank "pastmember" on addressing the latter); I made a vinyl cover with a slot for the hasp that wraps around the top board with a velcro closure to address the former issue.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 23:01:33

A dry erase pen works well too. Even though stainless steel supposedly doesn't rust, it's frequently easy to see where you have vertical rust tracks from where it's leaking in.

If you don't have a copy of Don Casey's [url="http://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Aging-Sailboat-Don-Casey/dp/0070133948"]Inspecting the aging sailboat[/url], I highly recommend getting a copy and reading through it to get an understanding of what you should be looking for beyond leaks.

I'd also be cautious about a seller who dismisses your concerns. You have no idea what he's not telling you. That's where Casey's book becomes invaluable, you don't have to depend on the seller's word, you know what to look for, and what to walk away from.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 04:41:02

Jared,

It is common for many of the boats to have some rain water seepage in from fittings, vents, etc. Normally, this is kept at bay by checking out potential leak sources as others have mentioned. I think what is important when checking out a potential sailboat purchase in regards to these leaks is to assess the signficance that these leaks have been a significant issue in the past. Any minor leakage areas, you can address if you decide to purchase the sailboat. The two warning signs I would have (and others may think of additional ones) would be is there a noticeable mildew smell in the cabin and if the bilge area (lift the wood cover up) appears to be fairly gunked up/has a water line/discoloring/bolt studs appear to be corroded or oxidized versus shiny. In regards to a mildew smell, it is probably common to have a hint of stale air if the sailboat has been buttoned up for a period of time but if you note a strong mildew smell, that would be something to consider as a potential concern. The bilge area should be clkean and no signs of a prolonged water issue. It is possible if the present owner was negligent in maintaining his boat that this area may just be showing signs of neglect and not necessarily a big water issue but my way of thinking is that if there is some concern when inspecting that area, then that would be also a potential concern either because there is a significant water issue and/or the present owner has not been maintaining his boat properly and then I would be concerned about any other potential areas he has neglected.

If a boat has a significant water issue, it may still be a boat to consider. It may be that one or two fittings are in serious need of recaulking or it may be something to do with his hatch boards allowing water in. You definitely want to make sure that this is rainwater concerns and not any saltweater seepage coming from the keel area. If the boat has a strong mildew smell, it probably will mean that this smell will be hard to eradicate if the smell is coming from the cushions. If the bilge area looks in real good shape but the boat has a strong mildew smell, then you may have to replace the foam in the cushions in order to eradicate the smell.

When I was looking over sailboats before I bought my Catalina 25, I was strongly considering a Beneteau First 23. I ruled it out for a combination of reasons but one negative was that it definitely had a strong mildew smell and the bilge area was a bit of a mess. My thought was that I liked the the roominess of the Catalina 25 I had seen earlier in the day and that Catalina looked like it was well taken care of with a clean bilge, no mildew smell, very clean and an overall very good sail-away appearance. But each of us looks at used boats differently. Some may consider a boat that has been somewhat neglected and get a good price for it. Then put some dough and time to fixing it up. So it really depends on what you are looking for in a used boat purchase and what the asking prce is for a specific boat. In my instance, I wanted a sailboat that was in very good condition. Even one that is in very good condition, there is plenty to tend to in getting it the way you want it and add those improvements that you feel are necessary or that you desire. Tending to water issues is not something I wanted to deal with and plenty of sailboats have only minor rainwater issues. As a guide, some rain storms, I will get a cup or so of water in the bilge but most rain storms, I will get maybe 1 hand towel's drying worth of water or no water at all.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 05:07:48

you didn't mention the age of the boat, but the window frames are notorious for leaking...

Edited by - on

oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 10:24:41

Thanks for all the help on this. It's a little intimidating buying a first boat and trying to assess all the likely concerns. I have Don Casey's book on Assessing an Aging Boat which is full of advice and a good start. My inclination is to buy something that has been well taken care of and is in sail away condition so as to ease into the maintanence and repair.

The boat is an '89 wing keel. From the rain water issues, it was indicated that cabin cushions were wet and needed to be dried out. We'll see about the mildew smells this weekend.

From Pics of the boat the topside wood trim seems in pretty poor shape, and the speed indicator is not working, compass is very hazy. The wind speed indicator was removed from the instrument panel. There is also a broken piece of teak about 2 foot long on the outside of the coming.

Anymore advice is always welcome on upcoming inspection.

Sadly, I can't find anyone who does surveys within a 200 mile radius.

Thanks

Jared

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 10:42:55

Well, I think you have found one of the most desirable Catalina 25's built. If the price is right, don't pass it up because the cushions are wet!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 10:55:51

I agree with Ed. Maybe the water issue can be used as price leverage....if it is an issue.

Another area of concern is leaks around deck harware. Prolonged leakeage may eventually cause the deck core to become soft and eventually fail. If the cussions were wet he may have removed the handrails to varnish them and didn't adequatley caulk them when reinstalling.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 13:58:42

If the top companionway crib-board has louvers in it (as mine did) and nothing covering it, a heavy rain storm will put some water on the cabin sole. It's a minor inconvenience. The rain might also get to the starboard settee and quarterberth cushions. If the port settee (forward of the galley) is wet, there's apparently some other problem as discussed above.

Water entering around deck hardware or stanchion bases will generally leave some brown streaks from the plywood core it's passing through--an indication that the hardware should be re-bedded. It also indicates possible water damage to the plywood--Casey as written about that, and so have our members. If you can't find a marine surveyor, I'm thinking you might be able to find a home inspector who has a moisture meter (and knows how to use it) to check the deck and cabintop.

Exterior teak can be brought back from looking very scuzzy to looking brand new--some sanding and about 4 coats of Cetol will make you proud. (Others prefer different remedies.) I know the '89 has a teak "eyebrow" above the windows--I didn't know there was wood on the coamings...

The '89-90 C-25 is the pick of the litter. Everyone has their own objectives, but I personally wouldn't let a few easily fixable flaws keep me from choosing one over almost any other 25-footer out there, including most of the older C-25s. How much does he want?

Good luck in your quest!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 19:53:43

Does anyone live close enough to give him a hand with inspection?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 20:50:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 Does anyone live close enough to give him a hand with inspection?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That might depend on where the boat is...

Edited by - on

oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 21:05:15

Thanks all for the info. I am relieved to hear that some water is not that abnormal of a condition after a big rain. I have done some digging and found a couple of surveyors that will drive out to see the boat and do a marine survey and fair market value for it!

Sounds like the word out there is that an 89 cat wing keel with some fixin up to do is not a bad thing.

By the way is there much of a difference between the 89 and the 87 wing keel?

I will do as much as I can in assessing the condition and will probably have some questions for you all with what I find out. Sure do appreciate all of your knowledge and time!!!

Thanks

Jared

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2010 : 07:18:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oregonworld
 
By the way is there much of a difference between the 89 and the 87 wing keel?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Though the 89 has less teak than an 87, the newer deck design is nicer. The 89 we recently purchased was left uncovered for several seasons (including winter) and it remains dry inside. The floor of the 89 is flatter/lower - not sure about the 87.

Edited by - OJ on 02/17/2010 07:30:25

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2010 : 07:33:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 ...the newer deck design is nicer...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...as is the interior due to a lower, flatter floor. Until '89, the floor was designed to accommodate the swing keel, regardless of whether the actual keel was a fin or wing. The headroom difference might be only a few inches, but a few inches can mean a lot if you're over 5'8" tall.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/17/2010 07:34:20

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2010 : 07:57:34

The extent of your concern about leaks depends on where it's leaking, and how long it has been leaking. The decks and coach roof are reinforced with plywood, and, if moisture gets into the plywood, it can delaminate, and that's a major concern. Leaks in the lifeline stanchions or grab rails or dock cleats, or chainplates, or other deck hardware can be a problem. Your surveyor can determine whether the plywood core has begun to delaminate. Generally speaking, a boat should not have leaks of any consequence. If it has a lot, then either the seller should repair them, or reduce his selling price to compensate you for fixing them. Obviously, you shouldn't pay full price for a boat that needs repair. Almost every used boat will need some maintenance or repair, so you shouldn't let that stop you from buying an otherwise good boat, but you should negotiate accordingly.

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