Association Forum - Latest acquisition . . .

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Latest acquisition . . .

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/21/2010 : 02:27:28

As spring is just around the corner, I better get this posted now. As Dave Bristle so aptly described it - below is an abbreviated log of our shopping odyssey last fall - enjoy!

Here's "Dance With Me," a 1989 model (located near Marshfield, MA) shortly after we made the decision to buy in October 2009. The hull and deck are sound with no major dings. The hull needs a good polishing and coat of wax. The sails are original and will be replaced in 2011. The outboard is a 2001 Yahama 4-stroke long shaft. The motor bracket was original so we've ordered the Garelick 71091. An 8' Walker Bay dinghy with sail kit was included - great tool for teaching the grandkids this wonderful pastime.

Fast forward a month and we fly to Santa Ana (John Wayne Airport) to pick up our new trailer from Trail-Rite.

The significance of the late check-in tag is this bag contained the drawbar and ball. While passing through security in Pittsburgh the TSA said we needed to check the bag. We were afraid it wouldn't make the flight and we'd end up waiting for the next flight to arrive 3 hours later (on a day where we were on a tight schedule.) Apparently Southwest made a special baggage run as it arrived with the rest of our luggage. Kudos to Southwest Airlines!

The next morning we had breakfast in Ludlow.

Passing through the MoJave on our way to the Grand Canyon (look at the depth of this shot!)

We were at the Grand Canyon for about 19 hours.

12X zoom.

Back in Pittsburgh with our booty. We found the truck on Craigslist about 12 miles from Trail-Rite. It's a '91 with only 63K miles on it - very tight all around. It has the 350ci engine and 700R4 transmission. At this point we are wondering how it will handle the boat.

Trail-Rite even banded the roller-trains for our trip. Nice finishing touch for a quality product.

Fast forward another month and we pick up the boat in Green Harbor, MA.

Yeah, I know, what's up with the bottom paint . . .

The previous owner double-gudgeoned the rudder hardware - a sign of what type of weather the boat has experienced?

Just as Rob at Trail-Rite predicted, the only adjustment we had to make was the forward roller. The trailer fits the boat like a glove.

Uh, as we went to attach the winch strap we realized the boat had no bow eye

- so we ran the strap around the foward legs of the bow pulpit.

The truck and trailer have their first ever taste of road salt on the trip up - ACK!. We started heading west with perfect towing weather on the way back to Pittsburgh - sunny and cold. We double checked the weather forecast for the next day on the Blackberry. The forecast had changed from sunny to freezing rain by 6 a.m. Sunday morning ($%#!) so we drove straight through arriving at our storage yard at 3 a.m. and home at 4 a.m.. I went out to for the paper at 6:30 a.m. and the streets were covered with black ice - whew! As discussed in a previous thread, I had some concerns about how a 1/2t truck would handle this load. To compensate I had quad disc brakes installed (Pennsylvania requires brakes on both axles over a certain weight.) The truck handles the load of boat and trailer extremely well. As for stopping ability - excellent. In retrospect, I feel the 3/4t Suburban I had for the last C25 I owned was slight overkill.

A brief visit in Springfield, MA so my travel companion could visit her home town - something she hadn't done in over 30 years.

THE END

Edited by - OJ on 02/23/2010 15:14:38

danandlu
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2010 : 07:08:45

Excellent. Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed the story and pictures.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2010 : 10:12:22

Quite an adventure. The first thing to come to my mind is how much you must love the C-25 (and this one in particular) to go to all that expense and adventure(aggravation?) to get this boat. I imagine that the trailer, truck and the travel cost quite a bit more than the boat did.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2010 : 10:58:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 . . . how much you must love the C-25 (and this one in particular) to go to all that expense and adventure(aggravation?). . . I imagine that the trailer, truck and the travel cost quite a bit more than the boat did.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
All good points John. As Catalina only made about 200 wings they don't come up too often so you have to act quickly when you do find one. Having done extensive maintenance on a '81 swing keel, I know C25s very well. While this one showed signs of neglect - it didn't show signs of abuse, i.e., I don't have to undue any DPO's amateur maintenance. Boat (and/or trailer and truck) shopping provides a great excuse to visit parts of the country you might not consider as a vacation destination. Yes, because of the economy, we acquired the boat for substantially less than we would have otherwise (so much so that it was easy to justify the cost of a new trailer.) $2,800 for a truck in almost like new condition was a gamble that paid off handsomely. $88 for one-way plane tickets was a no-brainer. Moving up from a cast iron swing keel to a lead wing keel, an improved deck design and acquiring a new trailer that will require minimal maintenance for years to come was aggravation avoidance.

Edited by - OJ on 02/21/2010 11:36:42

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2010 : 13:10:38

Steve, Your not fooling anybody. The boat, The trailer, The trip, Thats just a cover story when all you really wanted was a 91 Chevy pick-up....

All kidding aside Good luck with the new to you boat. It looks great! Gee has a wing just like mine.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2010 : 14:08:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Steve, Your not fooling anybody. The boat, The trailer, The trip, Thats just a cover story when all you really wanted was a 91 Chevy pick-up....

All kidding aside Good luck with the new to you boat. It looks great! Gee has a wing just like mine.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hah! Who really knows what lurks in the subconscious mind?

Good for you Scott, taking up sailing at this stage of your life!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2010 : 16:54:04

The Shadow knows. Great photo article,

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2010 : 07:35:06

I'm really surprised the truck seemed adequate. The boat has got to weight more than the truck .................

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2010 : 09:03:11

Towees often weigh more than the tower

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2010 : 10:14:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 I'm really surprised the truck seemed adequate. The boat has got to weight more than the truck .................
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's a but unnerving when you first think about it. My 3/4t Suburban was only 5,500 lbs empty. Consider the weight differential with tractor-trailers.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 11:35:01

Great post, thanks for sharing.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 13:15:50

Cool pics and story. So I wonder if my 1998 F 150 with a 5.4 liter engine would be up to the job....

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 14:08:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 Cool pics and story. So I wonder if my 1998 F 150 with a 5.4 liter engine would be up to the job....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is not a pulling problem but more of a stopping problem. If the boat trailer has brakes it is not a problem. I have towed 18,000 lb of sand in a trailer that weighed 2,000 lbs plus the truck at 5,000 lbs. It starts out slow but also stops VERY slow. Glad I did not have to go far. (about 20 miles)and glad the DMV did not stop me.

NCbrew

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 18:20:34

How about towing out for the Nationals in San Diego in September? I can promise a great time. Stay for San Diego - Ensenada and race me down there!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 19:04:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 How about towing out for the Nationals in San Diego in September? I can promise a great time. Stay for San Diego - Ensenada and race me down there!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wow, Jim, what a tempting offer and I'm sure it would be a great time! We plan to visit Yosemite and The Getty some time this year. 2,500 miles (one way) is a bit ambitious - even for us. Perhaps we could scope out some crew openings . . .

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 07:50:27

Not just the weight OJ, I wondered because I've heard so many times on this forum that you need something more substantial than a 1/2 ton.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 08:48:50

The weight is the reason you need more than a half-ton.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 09:58:19

Welllllll, I've towed C25s with a 3/4t and now a 1/2t (and initially I was a big advocate of the 3/4t.) The factory sticker inside the driver door of my 1/2t states 7,700 lbs max towing capacity. I have more overall stopping power now with the 1/2t pick-up coupled with quad discs on the trailer than I did with the former 3/4 ton Suburban coupled with quad drums on the trailer. Keep in mind the Suburban also weighed (empty) 1,200 lbs more than the pick-up.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 10:04:52

In "the old days," when Pontiacs had 350-400 horsepower, and weighed more than a 1/2 ton pickup truck, people towed their C25s with passenger cars equipped with air shocks. If you're only going to tow the boat a few miles each year, from the storage lot to the launch ramp and back, you can get by with a 1/2 ton pickup truck. If you want to tow the boat long distances at highway speeds, you should have a 3/4 ton truck, which should have bigger brakes, a stronger transmission with more powerful gearing, heavier tires with more wheel studs, heavier suspension, a bigger radiator and transmission cooler. If your trailer has electric brakes, the stopping power of your brakes will be greatly improved.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 11:30:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Welllllll, ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Please don't be offended, this topic comes up every winter. There are reasonable arguments on both sides of the fence.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">... Keep in mind the Suburban also weighed (empty) 1,200 lbs more than the pick-up.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think that additional weight of the towing vehicle is precisely why, IMHO, it would be preferred. I don't know which road you drove accross PA (the turnpike or I-80) but both are full of an awful lot of descending and ascending curves, with the turnpike being significantly worse (with far fewer "escape" points.) For those that haven't driven the lovely PA turnpike, it's a rather narrow road compared to more recently built highways (e.g. I-80). In many stretches the only separation between eastbound and westbound is simply a guardrail. Not much shoulder space either. I've stopped driving it entirely on my many trips to Harrisburg. I digress.

Steve's exactly right, the difference is not just the weight of the truck but also the beefed up suspension,etc. If the trailer were to start getting a little squirrelly on one of those long, steep descents, the 4 disc trailer brakes will help but, just the weight of the boat/trailer sliding a little sideways could easily be enough to overwhelm the 1/2 ton's suspension. I know that's worse case stuff but, isn't that the reason we wear seatbelts in the car and PFD's on the boat? This has nothing to do with how good a driver one is or how lucky one has been overloading a vehicle in the past.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 13:53:54

I appreciate (and respect) everything that that is being said here regarding tow vehicle specs - and yes I've read and contributed to some of those long discussions - and even advocated the 3/4t. And yes, if we had to make an emergency maneuver - a heavier suspension could help maintain better control.

What I am trying to say above is that we purchased the 1/2t because we had an immediate need. If an equally good deal had been available on a 3/4t we probably would have gone with that. We said we'd use this truck to get the trailer and boat back to Pittsburgh (and yes, we used I80) and evaluate its performance. Based on our experience - we see no need to move back to a heavier tow vehicle.

FWIW, we only trailer during daylight (okay, except to get home before freezing rain arrives!) The majority of people at our marina with C25s that have taken their boats to the Chesapeake, Lake Champlain, Sandusky and Georgian Bay for years using 1/2t tow vehicles - have done so without incident. Luck is always a factor.

Funny, we were just talking last night about what kind of trailer and truck we'd need for a C30.

Now, what's interesting is how many people have underrated hitches - even on a 3/4t unit!

As always, thanks to all who've shared their thoughts.

Edited by - OJ on 02/24/2010 13:58:15

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 15:49:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 ...we were just talking last night about what kind of trailer and truck we'd need for a C30...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Some friends had their C-30 professionally hauled to and from their home for winter storage, on ther own trailer--a wide load of something like 15,000 lbs. The big F-450 is barely rated for that--a Freightliner might be better.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 18:18:13

I remember reading an article {possibly in Mainsheet), a long time ago, about a guy who trailered his C30, pulling it with a 3/4 ton truck. As I recall, he was pulling it around the southwest, where there's a lot of flatland. I don't remember him making any rash claims about how well it pulled the boat up those long, steep mountain hills on I-75 in Tennessee

Edited by - on

jebrant
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 07:05:32

Well this was certainly a good read for me. Thanks for sharing! It has provided much food for thought about how I'll solve my own problem.

Am I right in guessing you flew from the East coast out West to buy the boat, bought a truck and trailer and then towed it back to the East coast?

I'm about to move to New York in a few months and I will need to move my C25. My 83 has a Fin keel and a trailer that the previous owner adapted to fit it. The only issue is that it's taller by about two feet.
As far as moving the boat, I'm trying to decide whether to have it shipped or whether to buy a used truck and tow it myself since I only have a midsize SUV currently.
Trucks are plentiful here in TX but I was concerned about a standard half-ton pulling the boat and trailer which combined I estimate being a 6000 pound load. My trailer is a tandem axle with four wheel disc brakes already.
So the questions I have are about the truck and towing package and how did you negotiate the boat through all the states you drove.
Was it significantly cheaper than just having it shipped?

Thanks.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 07:18:06

I'm guessing here.

Are you doing a DiTY move from Ft. Hood? If so, maybe you can rent a large enough U-Haul that can handle the trailer load.

My preference would be to have it shipped. Probably $2,500 - $3,000. That could be enough to make me think about selling it and buying another in NY.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2010 : 09:36:23

Hey Jebrant...

One of your key considerations on this will be how the load is on the trailer. Is it neutral tongue? Was it set up well so there is a 10% load on the tongue? more will decrease your tow vehicle's steerage, less will want to hobby-horse.

There is more to this than whether you have disc brakes on the trailer. With a trailer built to the boat, the balance of the load should be no problem, and the brakes will help with slowing. With an "adapted" trailer (I have one too) there is so much other motion going on, that even with the brakes helping, it will be a white knuckle drive, no matter how far you are going. If you don't have a bow-stop on the trailer, you shouldn't be moving the boat with it at all.

If you are lucky, the load will be correctly balanced on your trailer, and it will work out fine. If you aren't, the mover's rates are just right. I moved our boat with a GMC astro rated for 5500lbs last year. I went all of 10 miles, and in the end swore I would never use that vehicle with that load on that trailer again. I don't think your mid-size SUV will take you very far.

When we hired a boat mover to bring th eboat up from the States, a 4 hour drive, he made it look like moving a feather.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.