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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/23/2010 : 15:59:32

Confession.

This weekend we took JD out on Biscayne Bay a frequent hangout of ours. Arrived after dark Friday night at Sands Key to anchor.

We keep the Jib in a sailbag, normally I would hank on the sail at the staging area, but we were running a bit late so I planned on putting the sail up in the morning.

Saturday morning, bright and beautiful, hardly a cloud in the sky, clear, lazy flat water with a breeze around 8 knots in the anchorage off the lee of Sands Key, I started to put the Jib up.

Done this proably a hundred times, and have it down. I leave a messenger line attached to both ends of the in furler halyard. So after hitching the head of the sail to the halyard and feeding the sail into the furler slot, sat on the bag so that doesn't blow away.

Got the sail up and then reailized the bag had gone overboard (my butt must not be big enough!) It was just off the stern, so I decided to go after it.

Called down to Peggy that I was going overboard to retrieve the bag, off shirt and shorts, checked the water temp with my hand, not too bad. So I splashed and took a deep breath! Cooler than I thought.

Swam on my back out towards the bag and reaized that it was moving faster than I had thought. I was worried enough to call to Peggy to toss out a float for my return swim. A few seconds later I had the bag. Breathing hard now and my temp was obviously dropping. Concern growing!

Peggy threw not only the float cushion, but the lifesling too.

I pump air into the bag to turn it into a float and headed back. Breathing even harder and feeling the cold.. what the heck! this is Florida! Now I'm struggling to get back to the floats. Hard work, doggy paddle now as I'm exhausted. Finally get back to the float cushion, phew! that helped, but the lifesling was still about 30 yards away. Ontop of the float and bag I'm now really pushing myself! Very deep breaths and I'm aware of the consequences of what I have done, put us both at risk.

Determined I pushed myself to reach the lifesling, grabbed it and made myself secure and just shouted 'OKAY'.

Peggy hauled in on the lifesling and easily got me back to the boat.
Rested a few seconds and then climbed up the ladder.

Physically exhausted! and cold. Muscle weary is putting it mildly.

A cold shower to rinse off and a dry towel and dry clothes.

It took over an hour before my legs were obedient again.

Disaster avoided but lessons learnt:

... The water is always cooler than you think
... Things float from the boat faster than you think
... It's further to something than you think
... Never go into the water without a float in advance or
... It's worth putting on a floating tether even for a short dink.
... The bag is not worth it!

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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1225 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 16:40:09

So were you sailing?

I lost my "SAIL" hat the other weekend, it blew off my head. No way I would go into the lake in Texas this time of year. I didn't really like anyways it so I let it go.

Last summer when the water was warm, I lost my Ray Bans over the side. The wind was super light and we were just ghosting. I had guests on board. I watched the shades slowly drift down. It was a tough decision, but without any experienced sailors on board I wasn't going to try to dive in and get them. I STILL miss those shades.

My buddy and I have lost a couple things over the side recently. A woman's high heel and a bumper, both valuable. (Separate Occasions) Your boat hook is your best friend, we were able to fish both out under sail. Looked like heroes to the the gal that lost the shoe, looked like buffoons to everyone watching us from the patios as we retrieved the bumper. Luckily I was able to hook the bumper with the boat hook on the first pass. It reminded me of some deadliest catch stuff.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 17:03:39

I'm glad you're OK Paul. Scary experience but I'm surprised by the water temp. Ihaven't swum off my boat yet but, my kid has. I won't let her off the stern without a PFD. This might have been a good time to practice with your auto-inflatable. Of course, the re-charge kit would likely cost more than the bag replacement.

High heels? On a sailboat? I'm guessing she had never sailed before.

I dropped a hat overboard last summer. It floated long enough for us to use it as a MOB drill. Good practice and I got my hat back.

Edited by - John Russell on 02/23/2010 17:08:56

jerlim
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1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 17:29:58

While underway, we've used the opportunity of items gone overboard as a chance to practice MOB recovery, over the years, we've recovered a chart, a cap, a cushion and a sweater...

Edited by - jerlim on 02/23/2010 17:30:43

Voyager
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5369 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 19:33:48

Being a kayaker, I know that if you capsize, HOLD ON TO THE BOAT. A 10 knot breeze will steal your kayak away much faster than you can swim.

Take that lesson to swimming off your sailboat - wind or current can grab you or your hapless guests, and potential catastrophes can happen extremely quickly.

As several have pointed out, the loss of the only capable sailor aboard [even though many of our significant others often underestimate their capabilities in a pinch], can quickly lead to disasters, or unplanned inconveniences, for all remaining.

The US Power Squadron has created a great seminar called "Partner in Command" that provides an overview of the basics of motoring, anchoring, using the VHF and driving the boat back to port.

Here's the link for the brochure

http://www.usps.org/national/eddept/seminars/files/trifold_partner_in_command_11-11-09.pdf

My wife has taken it, I'd advise it to anybody who regularly crews, but who is not a certified boater.

Edited by - Voyager on 02/23/2010 19:37:19

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 22:45:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...The US Power Squadron has created a great seminar called "Partner in Command" that provides an overview of the basics of motoring, anchoring, using the VHF and driving the boat back to port...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Good stuff! I put together a two-sided sheet that I'm going to have laminated--one side is VHF basics, including how to operate it, channels to use, how to hail and make Pan-pan and Mayday calls, and how to identify our location and call TowBoatUS (including my member number). The other side is basic boat operations--starting the engine, starting and stopping the boat, operating the windlass, GPS, lights, etc. Many procedures start with "1. Put on PFDs." (Now the USCG has changed that term to "life jacket".)

But the sheet is no substitute for instruction and practice for my First Mate. (She's not an Admiral...)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/23/2010 22:59:33

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2010 : 22:58:07

Edited by - on

redviking
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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 05:39:28

SV Lysistrata is on Ball 177 at the Dinner Key Marina should you sail by. First rule - never jump off of a perfectly good boat.

sten

Edited by - on

skrenz
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351 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 10:07:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Concern growing! ......

Hard work, doggy paddle now as I'm exhausted.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Boy, I know what you mean. I was body surfing in the gulf off of Corpus Christi and wanted to get just a bit farther out to the surf on the further bars. I got out there alright. But then realized that the outer bar was NOT in standing depth water and I had to get back. Same "Concern growing" feeling. Like, oh my god, I might not be able to make it back and you can be sure nobody is watching. The exhaustion was accompanied by panic. It was the panic I had to control. I mentally knew, even with the wave action, I could eventually float back in (thank god no rip tide). Got on my back and did the backstroke that Dave talks about. I actually found doing a side stroke worked best for me and soon enough I could touch bottom.

Its an experience I won't soon forget and taught me several things:
You're not as young as you once were.

You're more out of shape than you convinced yourself you were.

You must not let your emotions take over your thought process.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
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Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 11:23:03

Dave - your laminated sheet sounds like a GREAT idea. Would you mind sharing it? It would have to be customized for each boat/location, but it would be a great starting point. I'd like to put it right by the vhf and point it out to guests at the start of every trip.

Right now the "airline flight attendant" speech I give to guests at the start of the trip usually gets boiled down to "if I fall overboard, release all the sheets and I'll swim to the boat." Obviously, these instructions don't contemplate the conditions under which a skipper is most likely to go overboard.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 12:19:49

Davis used to make a 8-1/2 x 11 laminated card called "Suddenly In Charge" that I picked up several years ago. Its the first thing inside our three ring binder and I always make a point of pointing it out to new folks on the boat. I checked their site and it doesn't look like they still make it, but they make a [url="http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=00138"]smaller set of cards[/url] that include the same information (I think).

Edited by - delliottg on 02/24/2010 12:30:16

redeye
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Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 12:54:50

I'm 52yo. Spent an hour on the stationary bike last night. I go to the gym at lease once a week. Spent 2 hours trail running last Saturday. Bike at lease once a week. Can't wait to get to the Sailboat again and get some swimming in as soon as I can.

Usta do Triathlon. Swim, bike run. I train to live. And I'm 6ft. 225 lbs, so I'm not some little skinny runner type body. Point is you gotta get some core body strength iffin you'r gonna jump in..

Everybody get some exercise.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 15:15:00

Paul, glad you are ok. That sounded a little scary. Reminds me while anchored one time, a cockpit pillow fell overboard. I was surprised how far it had gone is so little time, I jumped in dinghy and fired up the motor to retrieve it. Glad I did cuz it had gone even further.
Good lessons to be learned here.
Steve A
PS This week has been close calls for you and Jim B. It sure would have been a shame to lose either one of you guys. Please be more careful!

Edited by - on

PCP777
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Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 15:33:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell

High heels? On a sailboat? I'm guessing she had never sailed before.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Probably her first time on the boat. My partner and I were had sailed up to The Harbor which is a nice entertainment district. We were in his Catalina 27, and this photographer was taking pictures of a very pretty girl for her wedding album. He asked us if there was anyway we would be will to take them out so that he could take pictures of her. They snapped some real nice shots on the bow, and somehow her shoe slipped overboard. Anyways, we rescued the shoe, put them back ashore and went on our way. About a month later he sent us copies of the pics. They turned out great.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Good stuff! I put together a two-sided sheet that I'm going to have laminated--one side is VHF basics, including how to operate it, channels to use, how to hail and make Pan-pan and Mayday calls, and how to identify our location and call TowBoatUS (including my member number). The other side is basic boat operations--starting the engine, starting and stopping the boat, operating the windlass, GPS, lights, etc. Many procedures start with "1. Put on PFDs." (Now the USCG has changed that term to "life jacket".)

But the sheet is no substitute for instruction and practice for my First Mate. (She's not an Admiral...)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Great idea. Yeah, my pre-flight speech has been truncated over time as well, this is a much better idea.

Edited by - on

OJ
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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 17:12:59

In addition to being adept at throwing a life ring, it's important for at least one crew member (besides the skipper) to know how to maneuver the vessel. A very seasoned sailor took his new and inexperienced girlfriend sailing one April here in the northeast. Somehow he went overboard and she panicked because she didn't know what to do. By the time other sailors realized what was happening, he succumbed to fatigue and hypothermia.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 18:50:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Unsinkable2
 Dave - your laminated sheet sounds like a GREAT idea. Would you mind sharing it? It would have to be customized for each boat/location, but it would be a great starting point.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's still sort of a work in process, but I'd be glad to reply with a copy (Word document) to anybody who e-mails me. I'm also open to suggestions and improvements. Mine is written primarily for my personal First Mate who has some experience... The radio side might be useful, but one whole side (page) is just for a particular powerboat--not a very good starting point for this audience.

Thinking about what I'd do for the sailboat, I think I'd concentrate on a simplistic MOB drill--probably a hybrid of the "quick stop" and how to use the outboard. (There's a topic for another winter thread.)

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 02/24/2010 : 20:25:47

April in North America. Deadliest time of the year for hypothermia per USCG.
Sun's out, weather warms up nicely, but the water is ice cold, still in the 40's most places.

Gasp reflex gets even the best swimmers right away. Loss of manual dexterity in 15 minutes & lights out permanently in 45-60. In my Kayak Safety class, we time people getting back into the boat using various techniques. 5-8 minutes is not uncommon. 10 minutes for some. When you are struggling in the water, time passes in a flash.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 08:17:31

We were at anchor.

20/20 hindsite and assume that I was in a dinghy but lost paddles and motor.

The partner has to get the boat to me!

Probably could not pull the anchor up - so need to practice cut-away process. (add that to the list)
She could get the outboard running and could steer the boat to me (assuming no shallows!)

BTW, I'm 6', 185lbs, 61yo, and am not in the best shape (used to do double Pentathlons... 30 years ago!

)

And yes, the treadmill et.al. is in my plans.

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:40:08

Paul,
I've thought about the "she can't get the anchor up" problem, and I think I've got two potential solutions. The first has it's own problems, but solves the immediate "I've got to get the boat underway, but don't want to lose the anchor". I think it would be relatively easy to run the rode back to one of the winches and crank it off the bottom. Obviously this has the drawback of the time necessary to do it, so this probably isn't the optimal solution in an emergency.

The second solution involves some preparation before the emergency occurs, and I don't have it thought all the way out. What would be needed on our boat would be a way to attach a fender or float of some sort to the rode before you cut it. This would entail feeding the fender attaching line back through the anchor roller and I'm not sure how best to do that. Or attaching the fender line some other way so it's outside the roller (and won't hang up on it when you cut the rode). I'm sure a method of quickly attaching a fender line to the rode could be developed, I've thought about prussick knots, (easy to tie, but could slide off the cut end), mechanical attachments (not sure what I'd use, maybe a figure 8 descender locked off, easy to do, but expensive to lose along with your anchor, chain & rode), constrictor knots (hard to tie if you're not very familiar with them), etc. I'll think about this more, I like aspects of each of these, but most require practice, which isn't a bad thing, but the reality is she may not remember how when the pressure is on. Which brings us to...

Obviously, neither of these are options for a real emergency, just cut the rode and go get your MOB. Hopefully your GPS was running and you can get back on top of your anchor after the fact to retrieve it.

We both have splicing knives attached to our PFD's, so we always have a knife at hand. So far neither of us has had to use them, but they're there.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:40:20

A singlehander can't rely on someone else to help him when something goes wrong. If there isn't someone on board who can raise the anchor, operate the engine, and bring the boat to you, then, in effect, you are a singlehander, and you have to think like a singlehander when you go over the side. That means you should never get in the water unless you can get yourself out.

If the boat isn't at anchor, it can drift or sail away from you. If the boat is at anchor, and there's a strong current, you can drift away from the boat, and not be able to swim back to it.

The solution is, when you are the only person aboard who can operate the boat, don't go in the water unless you are tied to the boat with a safety line, preferably a floating one.

If you are tied to the boat, and can get yourself out, you don't have to rely on someone being physically able to raise the anchor, start the engine, or to understand and carry out your written instructions.

I fully support the idea of teaching your crew to operate the boat by themselves, but, when your life is at risk, you shouldn't rely on others unless you have absolute confidence in their proven abilities.

Edited by - on

DaveR
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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:02:40

It's great to be in decent shape and I do calisthenics 15 min in the morn, 15 min in the afternoon and then walk with Sugar for a mile 1/2 each day, and also try to eat goood simple food, but in cold water you're still in trouble if you're out of reach of the boat and over your head. What I took away from this is to stop. Take a breath and think about this situation before making any decisions. This is quite a bit like driving a car, one of the most dangerous things you'll ever do (driving is actually the MOST dangerous). I always say, treat your car like a space ship, pretend your Cpt. Picard (Kirk was too cocky)

. Well, the same applies for a boat. And I'll keep even MORE aware of it in the future. Glad all is well Paul!

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:20:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 

We both have splicing knives attached to our PFD's, so we always have a knife at hand. So far neither of us has had to use them, but they're there.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The splicing knife gave me an idea. Temporarily splice the fender into the rode after setting the anchor. I have a braided nylon rode. With a little effort (very little)the 3 braids can be separated enough to stick a 1/4" line through it temporarily. The idea being to stick the fender line through the rode and double it back on itself and secured with some kind of hitch. After attaching the float, deploy a few more feet of rode. Simply remove it before lifting the anchor. I don't think this would have any significant impact on the strength of the rode and can be easily attached and detached. Don't know if it would un-braid the line to the cut end but and then slip off, but I doubt it. If it could, it would take a very long time.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:42:37

Regarding thinking as a single hander even if you have someone else on board is good advice. Rita knows how to start the engine, and drive the boat, but if the sails were up, I'm not sure she'd know what to do, and I wouldn't expect her to be able to sail back to me. Simply dropping the sails and motoring would be a better solution. Let the sheets fly, and deal with the flapping sails after the fact.

In the Puget Sound, it wouldn't occur to me to go over the side like Paul did, even in the dead of summer. Even if Rita went over the side, or our hound. We're both better off with me in control of the boat rather than both of us flailing in the water. Even Lola (the chocolate lab) wears a good PFD with a loop at the back that you could grab with a boat pole, as well as a carabiner to attach her to a line if you happen to be in the water with her. We have our LifeSLing, as well as two throw pillows and we always wear our PFDs so floating isn't the problem. Getting the boat back to where they are is.

I've been out sailing in 90°+ weather on my old catamaran with just a pair of shorts on. Possibly the coldest day I've ever spent on a sailboat, I only lasted 45 minutes and was shivering by the time I got back to the launch. I've also gone swimming while trying to board a friend's dinghy. It was funny at the time, but drove home how cold the sound is, even during summer. In that instance, I swam to shore, because I knew I could make it, but by the time I got to wading water, I was glad I didn't have to swim back to the boat (they came & got me).

I think a far better plan is to treat anything over the side as an impromptu MOB drill. Never go into the water w/o a good plan for getting back on board.

Does everyone have their boarding ladder rigged so you can open it from the water? I know this is easy to do on a C-250, not so sure on the 25s & Capris.

I also want to build a MOB pole using Casey's plan from one of his books, but it's not at the top of the list.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 13:20:02

I can imagine a situation in which I am sailing with another sailor and a child, and the child falls overboard. In this scenario the child cannot swim and is not wearing a PFD, for some reason.

In that case, I would throw my Life-Sling out immediately. Then one of us would strip, jump in, and swim away, bringing the Life-Sling to the drowning child ASAP. The other sailor would perform a quick stop and return to us. If I were alone on the boat with a non-swimmer child overboard, I think I would drop the sails and try to drag the lifesling to the MOB.

But that scenario is highly unlikely, since anybody who can't swim would be closely watched on my boat, and they would be forced to wear a PFD.

If an object falls overboard, like my favorite Rockies baseball cap did 3 years ago in the Narragansett Bay, we make a valiant attempt to retrieve it with the boat hook after coming about. But basically, it's a "goner".

In this month's Mainsheet article about the Trans Pac Race 2009 aboard a C38, the skipper's troubles reminded him of the 7 P's of Life: "Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".

Thanks for the lesson, Paul!

Edited by - on

PCP777
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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 14:41:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 

Does everyone have their boarding ladder rigged so you can open it from the water? I know this is easy to do on a C-250, not so sure on the 25s & Capris.

I also want to build a MOB pole using Casey's plan from one of his books, but it's not at the top of the list.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I need to do this.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 15:10:51

Wrt the Ladder...

We have a velcro strap around the ladder, and a string going down from it. I hate to admit it, but the strap is really one of those pant-cuff protectors cyclists use. Wrap it around the ladder rung and sew a loop in it. The other end of the velcro gets the string sewn into it.

Now to lower the ladder from the water, a tug on the string will release the velcro, and bring down the ladder.

Edited by - on

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