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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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"To-Hulls" / Gate Valves, For Now Solution...

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C25OBrien
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/22/2010 : 14:03:13

I still have the old "to hull" volcanoes of fiberglass on the C25. I know that the best solution is to replace these with proper thru hulls however time constraints will make that diffcult this year. The current volcanoe connections look solid, however some of the gate valves are in bad shape as folows:

Forward sink drain: Was stuck, WD40 and now operates correctly

Galley sink/Ice melter drain: Valve handle seemes to open and close, however inspection from outside sill shows metal valve is shut. I assume this is broken.

Head Saltwater intake: Valve seems stuck, WD40 no help

Head Overboard discharge valve: Valve seems to spin freely as if connected to nothing (broken i assume, larger valve than the others).

So in all i have one working seacock/valve. I am worried about removing the current valves from the "to-hulls" and damaging the hull connection or the threads on the pipe that is glassed in (they look a bit corroded). All of the broken/stuck vavles are in the "off" position.
Questions:
1.)If i do nothing with the broken/frozen valves, is there a possibility that they will work their way to the "open" position?
2.)Has anyone successfully removed gate valves without damaging the "to hulls"?
3.)The largest hole/valve is for the overboard discharge, this is illegal in NY, is it legal anywhere? I was thinking of just epoxying the hole shut from the outside. (re-sale value?)
4.)Thinking of running the head intake line to the "fresh" water tank instead since the valve is stuck closed. (up to now i only planned to use the "fresh" water for hand washing and dishes, but i assume connecting any part of the head to it would be a potential cause for contamination).

I think i will try to tackle this project correctly with new thru hulls next year, however for this season I am looking for any input on potential "for now" solutions as this is obviously a worrisome part of the boat.

Thanks to everyone for the wealth of information for new owners on this site.

-Chris OB
Cool Yer Heels
1980 C-25 SR/FK L-Dinette
Sag Harbor, NY

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2010 : 14:45:53

These boats are not likely to be anywhere that overboard discharge is legal or acceptable practice, so sealing that through hull seems like the best option. You don't want to be inspected and have a non-secured overboard discharge system in place. I would not mess to much with something that isn't leaking until I was ready to replace it. The valves moving to an open position is less likely than simply crumbling away, and that might lead to a leaking fitting that can't be plugged - not good. Since they haven't leaked, they might be OK, but the prudent thing would be to seal all the non-functioning through hulls from outside since you will be replacing them anyway and live with the inconvenience. Do not connect the head to the primary water supply. Assuming that you have a holding tank, the easiest solution is to keep a 2.5 gallon spray tank by the head for rinsing - it does a better job with less water.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2010 : 14:59:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 ...but the prudent thing would be to seal all the non-functioning through hulls from outside since you will be replacing them anyway and live with the inconvenience.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I agree. A few years ago a member here tried to replace a valve, and the bronze pipe (stuck into the epoxy mushroom) crumbled in his hands. There may be much more trouble in there than you think. And we don't need to tell you about the risks.

PS: Does everyone have some wood or foam cone-shaped plugs on board?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 04:31:37

Thank You for reminding me to get the wood plugs onboard, that should have been a must do from day one, and somehow it slipped from the punchlist. My valves are old and those plugs could save my boat.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 05:42:43

I have tapered plugs fastened with light twine tied to each thru-hull. I also have several spares I keep with my other safety gear. for other issues that might arise. In a real jam, foam from a lifejacket or seat cushion can be cut to fit. Just don't cut up the lifejacket you are wearing if your boat is taking on water! Here's what I used from Defender:

Edited by - Tom Gauntt on 03/23/2010 05:45:23

C25OBrien
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 06:09:59

Thanks for the input guys, i love the quick responses here. 2 more questions:
1.) Since I may be epoxying the holes shut from the outside anyways, I might as well see if I can remove/replace the current valves and check the brass pipes, worse thing that can happen is they break off, but the hull is sealed from the outside anyways. See any issues there?

2.) I agree the plugs are a must, however what if there was a crack in the thru hull or somewhere else that wasn't really plug-able? I think keeping some fast cure epoxy / JB weld or something else that can cure underwater around for fixes of that nature? (Especially in my case with the "To Hulls"). Thoughts?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 08:55:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by C25OBrien
 . . . Since I may be epoxying the holes shut from the outside anyways, I might as well see if I can remove/replace the current valves . . . Thoughts?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you are going through the motions to epoxy the holes shut - my appoach would be to bite the bullet instead (yes I know, not my boat, not my schedule, not my budget.) I used a 4.5" grinder to remove the old to-hulls - very quick process. No second guessing, no lingering thoughts, no worry.

Edited by - on

C25OBrien
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:08:08

Ok now i guess it is a possibility to just get this over with now.

Does anyone have an estimate of the time and cost of the project? I am pretty handy and have a little experience with fiberglass, however I am by no means a professional do-it-yourself-er.

Also, do people usually replace the overboard discharge for the head? The valve in that thing is pretty big, so I guess don't want to pay for something I'll never use.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:11:32

1. Can't hurt, but I would mess with the valves and then epoxy to be sure that I didn't create a new crack. I would also want to be able to check the bilge and get the boat back out of the water quickly if necessary after launch.
2. The brand names escape me at the moment, but there are several epoxy putty products formulated specifically for that purpose.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 03/23/2010 09:16:59

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:25:50

I see no reason to have overboard discharge on our boats and would be inclined to remove the system. In the short term, I would permanently seal the thru hull inside and out. If the valve unscrews, it could be replaced with a bronze pipe cap.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 09:29:13

When I went from to-hulls to thru-hulls, I had to enlarge the hole in the hull, so there was no fiberglassing required. I used Life Caulk on both sides of the hull. Some here may recommnend a backing block on the inside for added strength.

Just saw where you plan to eliminate the waste to-hull . . .

Edited by - OJ on 03/23/2010 10:14:09

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 10:15:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 Thank You for reminding me to get the wood plugs onboard...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I might buy a few of these [url="http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|1394424&id=1394372"]foam plugs[/url] at Defender's big spring sale Thursday. (They're just down the road a piece...)

They say the plugs can be twisted into a thru-hull hole, or jammed sideways into a gash. I'm interested to see them in the flesh.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 12:49:41

Please... pick up a poster for me.. we could use it in the darkroom at the office... :)

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2010 : 15:55:30

I keep several large tubes of epoxy putty in my toolbox on the boat. Several companies make "marine" epoxy putty, but I'm not sure it makes much difference, epoxy will set up in any case. If it find it on sale at Lowes, HD, or wherever, I pick up a couple more, they're handy to have for lots of things other than emergency repairs.

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2010 : 13:40:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by C25OBrien
 Ok now i guess it is a possibility to just get this over with now.

Does anyone have an estimate of the time and cost of the project? I am pretty handy and have a little experience with fiberglass, however I am by no means a professional do-it-yourself-er.

Also, do people usually replace the overboard discharge for the head? The valve in that thing is pretty big, so I guess don't want to pay for something I'll never use.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A couple of comments. Over the past several months some folks have talked about removing the "volcano" using a grinder. I just got done doing this seacock change over job and I can tell you that a much much easier way to go is to use a saws-all with a long flexible blade. You can cut virtually parallel with the hull without any grinding dust all over the place. Use a demolition blade and it will go through fiberglass, brass tubing, whatever. Took me about 5 minutes. UNLESS your through hull is in such a place that you can't get a saws-all at it. The one I did was under the sink and accessible.

As for filling in the large discharge hole, I don't think you can get away with just putting in a glop of epoxy and leave it at that. You might be able to close up holes up to 3/4" with just epoxy. Probably the "right" way to do this is to grind down through several layers of the hull from the outside in an ever widening circles. Then filling in this area with layers of fiberglass cloth bedded in epoxy and ending with a layer of thickened epoxy as the final outside layer. That may sound like a lot of work but the grinding away is probably the most time consuming.

On the other hand you could do something perhaps not conventional but should work just fine. Buy a through hull, not the whole value but just the threaded part that goes through the hull and its associated nut that goes on the inside. Put it through the hole left by the old through hull, seat, seal, and put the nut on inside and then cap the through hull pipe on the interior with a plumbing cap. One drawback to this idea is that through hulls are threaded with straight non taper threads while plumbing fittings are tapered threads. However, it you use a either a good sealant or lots of PVC glue this should not be a problem. Ideally this pipe on the inside should be as close to the hull as the cap will allow. Disadvantage to this is that you have one more projection along the hull below the waterline to effect smooth water flow. Advantage is that if in the future you do ever want to use this outlet, the through hull is there ready to go for the sea cock.

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