Association Forum - Topping Lift

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Topping Lift

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Downbucket
Navigator

Member Avatar

USA
188 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/06/2010 : 09:29:01

Hi:

What is the length of the topping lift line?

Thanks.

Will

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 10:27:32

I never understand this kind of question.
Will, you can make it any length you want, you decide. Are you running it to the forward end of the boom to a cleat? Are you simply running it to your aft boom end to a cleat? Are you running it back to your cabin top? If to the cabintop will you fix it at the end of the boom and use a block at the top of the mast? OR will you make it fast at the top of the mast and run it along the boom back to the mast and down to the deck?
I am sorry, I just never understand this kind of question. A skipper/owner needs to design their own running rigging to meet their needs and simply do it.
Good luck with the project Will, I have always used a topping lift and think they are important.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 11:56:51

The only topping lift that is a part of the factory equipment of a C25 is the pigtail that is attached to the backstay. Any other topping lift that you see on a C25 is one that was fabricated by a previous owner. It seems everyone has come up with his own design, so there's no standardization, so you have to measure whatever is there.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 12:38:22

I need one too.. I'm buying 32 feet and tying off at the top and block at the bottom to make it adjustable. 1/4 inch line.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5372 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 19:10:56

Passage came with an ingenious topping lift which I continue to rely on.

There is a 3/8" line connected to the top of the mast, which is about as long as the mast.
The remainder of the hypotenuse is made up by a short, adjustable line running up from the boom, through a block hanging from the end of the 3/8" line coming down from the top of the mast, and led back down to a jam cleat on the boom.

I can easily loosen it when the main is hoisted, and tighten it up when I drop the main, keeping it from swinging around the cockpit, suspended just above head-bonk level.

My 16' daysailer uses a line that runs through a block at the top of the mast, then down to a cleat near the base of the mast. This also works fine, but, if I am single handing, Passage's method is definitely more convenient.

Edited by - Voyager on 04/06/2010 19:13:47

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

Members Avatar

204 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 20:44:40

I'm with Frank on this one. The topping lift is as long as you need it to be. If it's too short, it will not work. If it's too long, it will get in the way. I have a lift very much like Bruce's. Except mine is stainless wire rope from the mast head to the block. I used 3/8" line from an eye strap on the boom, through the block on the end of the stainless rope, then through a cheek block on the other side of the boom to a cleat about two feet forward on the boom. I think the topping lift is not only a great feature for comfort (getting the boom above the deck on my TR while at anchor or at the dock), but an essential piece of safety gear when underway.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 21:29:08

When I switched to all rope halyards on our C-22 (and later the C-25) I took one of the wires and used it for a topping lift. It is attached to the masthead and stops about 1.5 ft from the boom end. My 1/4" line runs from the boom through a block at the end of the wire and back to the boom, through another block and forward along the boom to a cleat. Consequently, the 1/4" rope is relatively short and easy to replace when necessary.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 22:37:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 The only topping lift that is a part of the factory equipment of a C25 is the pigtail that is attached to the backstay. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I always thought those were called "boom lifts." 'Least they were on our C22.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 05:46:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 The only topping lift that is a part of the factory equipment of a C25 is the pigtail that is attached to the backstay. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I always thought those were called "boom lifts." 'Least they were on our C22.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ya, I think calling the pigtail a topping lift is like calling a rat a dog. ("Don't worry honey--that was just the dog.") The pigtail seems convenient till you try to hook it up before dropping the main in a blow, or the first time you forget to release it before filling the sail.

BTW, I would recommend Dacron, not wire rope for a topping lift--it will be rubbing on the sail when under way, or at least on every tack. One little meat-hook and things could get ugly. (It should be slack when the sail is up.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/07/2010 05:55:27

clenfestey
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 06:44:15

How about a boomkicker? I have used them on several boats with very good results. No more topping lift!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 08:31:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How about a boomkicker?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I tend to grab the boom for support as I climb around - not good with a kicker. The pigtail actually has a name that I can't recall at the moment (ain't gettin old grand); perhaps Frank will chime in with the proper term.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 09:01:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How about a boomkicker?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I tend to grab the boom for support as I climb around - not good with a kicker. The pigtail actually has a name that I can't recall at the moment (ain't gettin old grand); perhaps Frank will chime in with the proper term.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The parts catalog calls it a pigtail. I've never heard it called anything other than a topping lift or pigtail.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

Members Avatar

204 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 09:20:56

Dave makes two great points: 1) wire rope vs. dacron for the topping lift line. I used the wire rope because it was already there. I should have replaced it when I had the mast down last spring, but was impatient to get the boat back in the water. 2) You never, ever forget the first time you bear off with the main raised and pig-tail (i.e. rat-dog) still attached. Even though it was a quarter-century ago, I remember it like it was yesterday!

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 09:31:46

We've got a wire rope topping lift too - to avoid the chafing/meat hook concern, I wrapped the cable w/ those snap-on cable covers.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 10:33:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tom Gauntt
 . . . the first time you bear off with the main raised and pig-tail (i.e. rat-dog) still attached . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">This reminds me of the the first time we raised the sails one spring and as I turned to trim the main I discovered we hadn't yet rigged the mainsheet

. . . yep, like yesterday.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 11:57:14

I never understand when someone asks this kind of question, one that is simple for some and, for others, a real issue to which they're seeking an answer, they seem to get information overload but never get the answer they're seeking. I'm guessing here that if Will knew how long he wanted to make it, he wouldn't have asked. Underlying this question may be a need to better understand the purpose for the thing (to keep the boom from being too low when the sail is down) or, maybe, has somebody already calculated the length from the masthead to the end of the boom and if so, what's that measurement.

Will, assuming a standard rig and a boom length of 10.5ft (I think but don't know that the boom is about a foot longer than the foot of a standard sail), the length from the top of the mast to the end of the boom is approximately 31'. That length will hold the boom at roughly a 90 degree angle to the mast.

I'd suggest the adjustable system that Voyager described. So, you'll need 2 lengths of line. One that is fixed at the masthead and extends about 80-90% of the way to the end of the boom and have a small block at the end. Another length to be determined by where you might place the blocks, etc., for rigging the adjustable stay. This sytem will allow you to raise the boom higher than 90 degrees to get it out of the way while at anchor or at your slip.

Edited by - John Russell on 04/07/2010 12:02:13

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 12:14:27

Bruce's (Voyager's) topping lift presumably uses this little Harken Micro Fiddle at the boom end, (I presume because I bought it) and a simple block on the end of the line down from the mast head. A 1/4" line runs from the becket up to the other block, back down to the lower sheave, and through the V opening, which acts as a jam cleat for quick, easy adjustment. I put a stopper knot for the lowest level I wanted, and as insurance against accidentally dropping the boom.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/07/2010 12:17:25

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 14:14:01

I use the same thing - cheap, simple, and effective.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 17:00:43

I have that block in Dave's photo. I use vinyl coated wire about 1/16 to the top of the mast and 3/16 line. This gets all line out of the cockpit, off the boom and out of the way.

Adjusting the topping lift while under sail allows one to control twist in the main. Twist can be very good in light air with a gradient wind (wind stronger aloft). Trimming the topping lift up a few inches introduces lots of twist.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 06:18:49

I really like this adjustment setup DaveB. What size block did you use? I'm looking at this one (defender)

Specifications:

* Sheave Diam.: 1-3/16 in.
* Max. Rope Diam.: 5/16 in.
* Max. Working Load: 661 lb.
* Breaking Load: 1323 lb.
* Weight: 1.1 oz.

Too large?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 07:32:45

Actually, now I think my lower part was only 3/16"... and that block is plenty big if not too big. The load is never going to be substantial. I think the Micro Fiddle takes 1/4" max.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 07:48:55

Yepper, the micro fiddle will only work with 1/4 line or so, so your block needs to be pretty small. I use the setup for an outhaul. Not yet sure what I'm gonna use for the topping lift.

http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF571

http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?prodno=RF341

I'm thinking about using these.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 07:55:38

http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?prodno=RF280

or this even smaller block..

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 08:00:28

http://www.harken.com/CatalogPDF/042-small_boat-micro.pdf

but I'll probably go with the harken product.

The micro blocks for 1/4 line..

this PDF from Harken shows the options pretty well

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2010 : 08:52:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How about a boomkicker?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I tend to grab the boom for support as I climb around - not good with a kicker. The pigtail actually has a name that I can't recall at the moment (ain't gettin old grand); perhaps Frank will chime in with the proper term.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The parts catalog calls it a pigtail. I've never heard it called anything other than a topping lift or pigtail.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Boom crutch sometimes since its function is closer to an old crutch than topping lift.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2010 : 09:57:05

I'm with Craig, I replaced my topping lift with a rigid boom vang seven years ago for a lot more reasons than needing a hand-hold. Its infinatley more practical, though more expensive, than a piece of rope hanging off the mast.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.