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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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no mast winch?

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limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/04/2010 : 09:51:10

I was reading in the discussion below started by cks about the different set ups people have, moving the winch from the mast to the cabin top. here is a picture of the boat I am buying, i see there is no winch on the mast itself..... does the PO have it set up so all the lines and halyards run back to the cockpit there and through the rope clutches?

Sun Dancer
1980 C25 SR/SK #1992
Hammock Island Marina, Chesapeake Bay.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 10:54:37

Yes, through the rope clutches - but I don't see any cabin top winches (not an absolute necessity) that normally sit aft of the rope clutches.

During the interim, if your lines are long enough you can cheat by using the winches located on the coamings.

Edited by - OJ on 05/04/2010 10:58:25

limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 10:59:50

and as an add on question, it looks like i have space for 6 lines... those would be:

main halyard
jib halyard (although i have a furler)
spinnaker halyard
outhaul?
cunningham?
and one extra space?

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 11:29:12

Vang?

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 11:32:39

Leading one or two reefing lines back to the cockpit makes reefing the mainsail for strong winds much more convenient and safer to do when underway. Some setups use one "jiffy reefing line" and some setups have a tack reefing line and a clew reefing line. Either setup can be used on the boom (worst), at the mast (fair), or led back to the cockpit (best of all).

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limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 11:41:21

OJ, the winches on the coamings would be the 2 that you can see peeking up at the top of the above picture? it looks like they were meant to be used with the rope clutches how it is all presently set up.

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cks
Navigator

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Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 11:42:01

Hi limey 156,

I would consider running these four (or five) aft as my top priority if i had your set up; since you have a furler, you may be better off cleating the jib halyard off at the mast and leave it there:

1.main halyard
2.1st reef line (2nd reef line if you have it on your main)
3.boom vang (hope you have one)
4.topping lift (if for nothing else, to keep you from getting knocked on the head when the main comes down)

Edited by - cks on 05/04/2010 11:46:23

limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 11:54:26

OMG everything i read creates more questions in my head:

i thought the pigtail on the backstay (the wire loop) was used to stop the boom from descending when you lower the main. not sure how yet, but i thought it clipped on there....? if not, i need to see how this topping lift works, and if we have one.

I also do not know how to reef a main really, just know the principle, not the correct way to run the lines. need to learn before i try sailing home and see whether i have one or two reefing lines.

I do have a boom vang, so i guess that will be run back to the cockpit. the rope clutches are a little worn on this boat plan on replacing them in the near future, two of the release handles are broken and all of them look old and uv damaged.

time to forum search: topping lift, reefing, etc...

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2010 : 16:29:51

Limey,

The pigtail creates as many problems as it solves, IMHO. I think it is really only useful when the main is completely stowed. I can promise you'll never forget the first time you raise the main with the pigtail still attached.

Think it if this way: the pigtail supports the boom but it is attached to the backstay and is only a foot or two long; the topping lift (as the name implies) lifts the boom from the top of the mast. The topping lift is always connected - it is loose when the main is up and can be adjusted to raise the end of the boom or just support the boom. This is really important when raising the main and perhaps even more desirable when reefing underway. It's also nice to raise the boom when at anchor (or the dock) to create more room in the cockpit.

I would learn how to reef the main before you try moving your boat from where it is to where it will be slipped. It's easy to overpower the main which puts a lot of strain on the rig and sail, and can be an uncomfortable ride.

As for your vang, it would be nice to run it aft, but it might have a cam cleat on one of the fiddles to hold the line.

Also, I would NOT use any rope clutch with a broken handle as tempting as it might be... Rope clutches are expensive - the best deal I've found lately is at Bacon's Sails in Annapolis.

I recently returned a neglected '82 TR/SK to pretty nice condition and learned a lot along the way. Your profile says you're in the Pasadena area. I live over the bridge on Kent Island and slip my boat at Castle Harbor. Let me know if you are on the Eastern Shore and want to see what I've done with my boat. I've made a lot of repairs and upgrades including most of the things you are discussing in this post. I'm getting ready to put the sails back on next week, so let me know if you want to experience that wonderful rite of spring.

Congratulations on your purchase!

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2010 : 07:23:25

Tom,

Topping lift: something else to add to the list of things to do, and i dont even have the boat yet!

I dont plan on trying to sail anywhere till i feel i can survive a sudden squall or other bad weather, ie be able to reef, drop sails, drop anchor, have the charts to find safe shelter, etc. I am hoping to be able to pretty much read up on it all and then figure all that out with the PO for guidance, and then sail home. i have some sailing experience and an experienced friend so i am not worried.

As for the vang, i know it needs a new roller, but i am waiting till i have the boat in hand to figure it all out.

i have 2 broken rope clutches, but 4 functional ones remaining so i am good to sail home. then i plan on getting these, as recommended here: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|3800|312072& id=137005

If you wouldn't mind giving me a tour of your boat sometime between now and the weekend of the 22nd (when i plan on sailing home) then i would be able to pick your brain, and learn about our boats, before i make the 80nm trek home. worst comes to worst, i can always motor the whole way! (although that would be the last resort ;)

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2010 : 09:01:34

Limey,

The rope clutch you mentioned in your post is the ones I use and have been very happy with all my Spinlock equipment. I just checked the price on Defender and it's only a buck or two more than Bacon's in Annapolis (if you haven't been to Bacon's, I can't stress enough what a great chandelry this is! Great selection of new and used parts, great selection of new and used sails, and a SUPERB staff. Plus, they don't try to rip you off.) If you could get free shipping at Defender, they're a great source for parts.

I'll send you an email off-line with my contact info. It would be a pleasure to show you around my boat!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2010 : 09:52:19

You need a bunch more winches!

(I'm totally kidding.)

I have eight and a modified traveler. A tad over rigged by the PO. All my lines for everything run aft to the cockpit. Are you going to run spin? The cabin top winches are handy for the halyards. I actually only use two, usually one cabin top winch since I set up roller furling.

Ah, you can see all them in all their glory here!

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2010 : 10:06:14

Our boat has and we do plan on running a spin (eventually). thats a lot of winches! we have the roller furler too which i am excited about, i want to set the boat up so it is as easy to singlehand as possible. been reading up on the discussions about lazy jacks, seems like there are some differing opinions of them. I'll wait and see how it is to take down the main'sl w/o them.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2010 : 11:20:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by limey156
 Our boat has and we do plan on running a spin (eventually). thats a lot of winches! we have the roller furler too which i am excited about, i want to set the boat up so it is as easy to singlehand as possible. been reading up on the discussions about lazy jacks, seems like there are some differing opinions of them. I'll wait and see how it is to take down the main'sl w/o them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The biggest ease of sailing improvement you can make, IMHO, is roller furling. That's awesome that you already have it. Taking down the main and snapping the cover on is not a big deal. Usually my wife has that done before we get into the slip so we are able to tie up the boat and leave. I used to hate to have to un-hank the jib, carry it to the dock, and flake it, put it in the bag, take it back to the boat.

As far as lazy jacks etc, I'd take her for a few sails and get a better idea what you want/need before dropping any serious cash on lazy jacks etc.

You do definitely want a topping lift. Mine is simply a small line that runs from the top of the mast to the end of the boom through one of these bolted to the port side of the boom. It doesn't seem like it would be expensive or difficult to install.

Other options would be a boom kicker or rigid vang.

I never use my pig stay, as I hammer the boom over to starboard when not sailing with the traveler for easier access to the companionway and get the boom out of the cockpit. If you use it while raising your sail you can get in some serious trouble.

Anyways good luck and enjoy your C-25. We love ours!

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2010 : 09:56:44

Given that you have roller furling, you don't need to lead the jib halyard back to anything since, essentially, you will never be raising or lowering the jib. Probably everybody has a different setup for their lines so this is something that you will need to work out for yourself.
However, there are some lines that pretty much everybody leads back:
Main Halyard
Spinnaker Halyard

I agree that a topping lift rather than the pig tail is the way to go. However, I find that I rarely am adjusting the topping lift so I don't see a reason to lead it back to the cockpit. But that's IMHO.
What I really don't want to be doing is being on deck by the mast fooling with lines when I need to reef. That is precisely the time I want those lines led back to the cockpit. So that's at least one line (for a single jiffy reef setup) or as many as four lines (for two line reefing for two reefs) coming back to the cockpit. IMHO I would start with a single jiffy reef and go from there. Even if you don't think you will ever be in "that kind of weather" you should be prepared to take in at least one reef.
The cunningham, if you have one, could be led back to the cockpit. You adjust that a lot.
My boom vang terminates in a cam cleat on one of the vang blocks closest to the cockpit and so doesn't run out to the mast and back to the cockpit. But you can set these up as you wish.
Jib roller reefing line comes back to a cleat on the side of the cockpit combing as does the spinnaker downhaul so these are "in the cockpit" but they are not coming through the rope clutches on the cabin top.

As to winches, from your picture it looks like the mains might be a bit small. Are these Lewmar 16 two speeds or equivalent? They clearly are not self tailing and for single handed sailing, self tailing winches I think are a must have. So probably you could move the winches you have to the cabin top and replace them with the two speed self tailing winches.
Even if you run a spinnaker you don't necessarily need a set of winches dedicated to that sail. You can use the mains for this because after all, you are not using the jib when you are using the spinnaker. Racing may be a different matter. What you do need is a second set of blacks way aft to lead the spinnaker sheets through and thence forward to the winch.
If your main sheet is the standard type, that's already in the cockpit. However, if you have moved it forward, that too may run through the rope clutches. Not my choice of how to do things but who knows.

So again, apart from the two halyards and I think the mainsail reefing lines its up to you and what you have.

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