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Asy vs Sym Spinnaker

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Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/19/2010 : 05:39:52

What are the performance pro's and con's of asymmetric vs symmetrical spinnaker? I just got an asymmetric and it is so much easier to control and setup than my symmetric and the pole. What am I giving up as far as performance?

Fleet
Kamikaze
1983 Hull #397
Lake Guntersville, AL

Edited by - on

nebraskac25
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2010 : 06:20:35

Depends on your point of sail. You won't be able to sail as deep carrying an assym, but you really shouldn't be giving up all that much speed especially at higher reaching angles.

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2010 : 06:41:22

If you race triangle courses, the asy will rock. If you do mostly WL courses, I still prefer the sym.

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joearcht
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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2010 : 05:03:47

Are you setting the Asy on a bow pole? If not, where specifically are you attaching the clew of the Asy.

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windsong
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318 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2010 : 05:25:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Fleet
 What am I giving up as far as performance?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Very little. As Mike said, you'll be able to sail deeper with the sym, but asyms have gotten so good that computer models show that in most wind conditions, you're actually better off sailing higher and hotter with the asym. I should note, however, that the asym does not earn the respect and admiration of sailors quite the way the sym does. That's just my unscientific observation.

Edited by - windsong on 05/20/2010 05:26:30

Fleet
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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2010 : 09:00:42

Joe, I take it you mean where the tack of the asy is connected? Right now I've got a block attached to where the tack of the genoa attches. I'm running a tack line through that block. I looked at buying a retractable bow sprit but they are very expensive. I'll experiment with this setup and see if it is worth keeping the asy.

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joearcht
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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2010 : 05:34:46

Your right Fleet, the tack is what I was wondering about. I hope you'll give us a report back after your experimentation. I've thought about a retractable bow spirit also, but don't really want to mod the boat that much just yet. I agree with Windsong, a well run spinnaker is a source of accomplishment and pride, its just that I have a problem filling out a stable crew every race so a simpler Asy is appealing from that standpoint.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2012 : 08:36:06

Fleet, I know we've emailed back and forth, I just dug this thread up after a Sunday race this weekend. I flew my symmetric for the first time during a race. I ALWAYS race short handed (usually just me), but my daughter 9yo was with me, and there was NO wind (as usual). Anyway, launching the symmetric myself, and dousing cost me tremendous time (10 boat lengths at least (would have been more but most others were dead in the water). Wind shifted 90 degrees, and keeping it filled was impossible, on top of that, I was doing all the foredeck monkey work (at which I stink).

Anyway, an asym might be way less trouble, and easier to douse when I get my typical 45-90 degree wind shifts. I was curious it's been a while, what are your thoughts on this sail now?

PS: I had a symmetric rigged with a tackline on my last boat (Capri 22), and because I didn't have a pole to use the sail correctly, I sailed it that way quite successfully, using a symmetric cut spin, as an asymm without a sprit. I know I won't match boat on boat DDW with it, but in my racing circles it might work pretty well.

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Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2012 : 06:30:14

What I've found out in the limited times I've used both Asy and Sym spinnakers is that if I'm racing I should use the Sym. For cruising, especially short handed, the Asy is easier. I'll sail the Asy single handed but won't sail the Sym short-handed. I had one race where we used the Asy and were racing alongside a Colgate 26 also with an Asy. Neither had an advantage during the first downwind leg. On the second downwind leg, the Colgate threw up his Sym and blew past me. For that particular wind conditions and direction, the Sym beat the Asy hands down.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2012 : 11:55:52

Here's why I ask...
My Sym, is really the bomb for DDW, and cracked just off DDW, it's OK broad reach and pretty fast that way.

HOWEVER, 90% of our sailing on our lake (which doglegs some) is reaching, from broad to close. Even if we were DDW for any particular race, I could make an argument that cleaner air, and the favored side can be reached to, and therefore could usually give advantage.

I am ALWAYS short handed, with most my races sailed solo. I need something I can fly myself and get back MOST of what I am losing to the guys throwing a spin. We are all portsmouth, and I don't propose doing away with my rigging for a sym (or doing away with the sail if I want to do OD)... but I want a better way to be more competitive.

If I am rated to throw a sym spin, is there a ratings hit to go to asym with a sprit? I mean if I am going to put an asym on my boat, I'll get a retractable sprit for the boat too (to get the luff out further into clean air). Theoretically it should be a wash in performance so long as I keep the overall SQFT the same right?

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Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2012 : 11:49:37

Take a look at Table VI, the Portsmouth modification table. MY interpretation is that if you put an ASY on, you can take the following mods: Spin boat w/o spin, Asy spin and bow sprit. It looks like the bow sprit penalty is dependent on the length. I would calculate your new rating with the Asy and compare it to Sym spin and Spin boat w/o spin. When I look at getting a manufactured bow sprit, I think the cost was in the $600-$1000 ball park. It seems at a glance that if you are sailing short handed, you are probably better off just using a whisker pole/genoa and taking the spin boat w/o spin handicap.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2012 : 20:34:36

Fleet, we don't get ratings with and without spin, I am penalized as having used the spin, even though I am single handing it and can't easily throw a spin. If I just went with an asym, I think it'd be a wash, but I'd at least be able to maybe run it myself reasonably short handed. But I agree they might penalize me for having a sprit.

Look here for what I was thinking for a sprit:
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=2593
Seems like a bargain to me. Just thinking out loud here.

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Fleet
Navigator

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USA
151 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2012 : 12:38:18

That's a nice sprit at a decent price. Unless you have some long downwind legs, I think you may lose more time setting the Asy up singlehanded than you would gain speed wise.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2012 : 17:01:15

about half of our race series works out to be long deep reaches, I'm looking for something that will give me light air advantage in that, something easier to deploy than a symmetric, which itself gives advantage in some races EVEN deployed single handed (yep our races have been THAT light).

It might help to see the shape of the lake I am dealing with. Prevailing winds are from the N, to NW... rarely NE, sometimes S, SE.

Edited by - shnool on 09/25/2012 17:07:00

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