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Lightning Show

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/23/2010 : 13:20:46

Check out this lightning show we had the other night. I had the camera zoomed out as far as it would go but the storm was so close you can't see the whole show. The video is approx. 10 minutes long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0MrtyRTxeU

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GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 04:49:35

Git back in that house!!!

If I'd a done that my momma would a Whooped me. Well not mom, but Grandmother would have.

Sweet. I was on the boat 2 weekends ago and I watched similar but not as much from a long way off. Moved north of me. It was cool.

I've been shocked twice, once on the phone and once diving.

A Commercial Airline flag man. Lightening hits the plane, and him. Melts the bottom of his shoes. He says he is fine. Can hardly hold a job now, and no comp from the airline cause he didn't know to get checked out. Fries your short term memory.

Classical Clinical description: You come into the patients room and he says: "I feel like hell, what happened to me?" You tell him he was hit by lightening. You leave the room, come back in and he says: "I feel like hell, what happened to me?" Takes a LOT of voltage to get to that point, usually welders that get hit near the head.

Favorite story...

So they are outstanding in a field, like they say, except they are not lying down, and they get hit. They are covered in water, which is soaked into the clothes, so the lightening blows their clothes off of them, and now they are down, naked, knocked out, and have no short term memory. Talk about embarrassed.

When you say they are shocked, you are not kidding.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 05:44:40

[scratchy voice over the VHF] "... if you can hear thunder, you are close enough to be struck by lightning."

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 06:33:40

Cool video! Just think--17,000 volts for each inch traveled through dry air--less of course in a rain cloud, but... I've read that a bolt from the top of a rain cloud (the positive side) can be pushed by a billion volts.

I grew up with monsters like that storm in the midwest... hardly ever see them her in the northeast--at least not nearly on that scale. Nature can be humbling!

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 09:23:05

Here in the Ohio Valley lightning without thunder is often referred to as "heat lightning."

Edited by - OJ on 05/24/2010 09:24:11

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 11:05:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Here in the Ohio Valley lightning without thunder is often referred to as "heat lightning."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I love that...

It's plain old lightning in a distant thunderstorm--like 50 miles away, where the sound is virtually inaudible and arrives four minutes after the light.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 11:50:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Here in the Ohio Valley lightning without thunder is often referred to as "heat lightning."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I love that...

It's plain old lightning in a distant thunderstorm--like 50 miles away, where the sound is virtually inaudible and arrives four minutes after the light.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Last season we did a night sail and saw lightening like this south of the lake. A bit scary, no thunder and eerily beautiful.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 17:29:37

According to my radar these storms were a little over 5 miles away. Yes, absolutely within range of getting hit by a bolt but I was standing near the house and 90% of the lightning was cloud to cloud. Besides, this is about all the excitement I get anymore so I my odds were pretty good.

Besides I'm still invincible, hadn't you noticed?

Is this enough rationalization to get our of trouble with grandma?

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 18:02:27

Don't make me start talking about the "cone of protection" afforded by our masts!

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 18:14:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Don't make me start talking about the "cone of protection" afforded by our masts!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm not betting my life on a "cone of protection" that may or may not exist. If the rigging/boat is not grounded just right you could easily take a hit strong enough to kill from a stray stroke or static electricity.

Remember, that bolt of lightning just traveled across as much as 10 miles of sky. I don't think 10 feet is going to make that much difference.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 20:37:16

The C-25/250 rigs, as built, do not provide that "cone." They are insulated from ground (water) by several layers of fiberglass, wood, and air. On the one hand, that makes a strike to the mast somewhat less likely, but it also makes our nice saltwater-rich bodies potential components in the path to ground--much like a golfer standing under a tree (a common target).

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two port feet
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2010 : 22:09:26

I just acquired a 1976 sabre 28 and every peace of hardware is grounded to keel. hope I never have to test this system.

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JudOWNED
1st Mate

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USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 08:01:55

So, as a new sailor, what are the dangers of getting caught in a lightening storm? I mean, you've got a giant metal pole sticking straight up into the air. Gotta be a magnet for lightning strikes, right? Are there protections built into the boat for this? Are you pretty much (figuratively or even literally) sunk if you get struck?

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 08:38:48

Well now , haven't we opened the proverbial can of worms once again

Matt, I try NOT to be out in lightning. I pay strict attention to the weather and it's trends for whatever time of year it is and plan my outing around that. But occasionally you will get stuck out and just have to deal with it. I take some comfort in knowing there's a lot of boats out there and not many that get struck.
As far as the mast grounding goes, there are different theories and contrasting opinions. My opinion is that a ground to the water attracts a charge so I don't do it. I mean, if you've got two wire leads, one grounded and one not grounded and introduce an equally opposed lead, giving it enough charge to jump from the charged lead to one of the other (equally opposed) leads which one do you think the charge will jump to? I think it'll be the grounded charge every time. But other folks disagree and choose to ground. You have to research the subject and make your own decision.

Edited by - DaveR on 05/25/2010 08:43:25

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 08:59:51

Matt--there are many old, long, looooooooong threads on this subject--some might have outlived our archives. Catalina did not ground our rigs. I've long suspected that builders don't do it because any attempt to make a boat safer in an electric storm, when it fails, will likely draw a lawsuit for being improper (or for attracting the strike). Nobody knows why lightning strikes a boat with a shorter mast and misses the one next to it with the taller mast... or why it directly hits the water very close to a boat with a big aluminum stick (frying all of the electronics on the boat).

"Properly" grounding the rig and other metal (rails, etc.) presumably keeps the occupants of a boat safe (Bruce's "cone of safety"), and reduces the odds that a strike will blow holes in the hull. "Air gaps" in the grounding system supposedly help prevent "leaders" from attracting strikes... Yada, yada, yada... There are lots of theories and ideas, but few people who will "professionally" implement them, due to liability. No matter what anybody does, lightning might defeat it.

My strategy presumed that the C-25/250 mast and rig, which is separated from the water by air and fiberglass, doesn't offer much in a low-resistance path. That said, my tactical approach was to not go sailing on a day when a front was coming through, and in the event of a pop-up storm, to beat a hasty retreat! What would I do if I lived in Florida where boomers roam every day? I dunno--I don't live there!

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 11:45:14

Yepper.. I always recommend the boat next to me in the slip needs to be properly grounded.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 12:10:01

<< "cone of protection" >>

I use the "Aura of Protection" afforded by my daily ration of Rum when at sea.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 13:42:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 << "cone of protection" >>

I use the "Aura of Protection" afforded by my daily ration of Rum when at sea.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

LOL, I love the term "Cone Of Protection."

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djdurrett
Navigator

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124 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 14:55:14

I watched a boat take a strike during a TORC regatta several years ago in the gulf. No one was hurt but all electronics were fried. There was a huge debate whether or not the bolt hit the rig and the "cone of safety" was employed or whether the strike was to the water nearby. All they talked about was how loud it was. They were a half a mile to a mile from us that night. We were busy trying to get the kite down when we heard the squal coming. There is nothing stranger than the sound of the rig buzzing. They say you always smell burning peanuts before a strike. I forgot to ask that one!

The most afraid I have ever been in my life was on a J22 between races during a circuit stop on Corpus Christyi bay. We rode a massive storm out down below the whole time having this debate whether or not to groud the keel. Skipper forgot to hook it up when stepping the mast. Luckily we did not take a hit and lived to talk about it for several years at the yacht club bar counter. The worst part was sailing back to the start as we were blown way out of the bay! After that experience, I'd rather not be out in a lightning storm!

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 17:50:46

I was at Canyon Lake one time hanging out with a friend of mine at the time watching a huge thunderstorm off in the distance. We watched it for an hour and it didn't appear to be getting an closer so we decided to take his dads Cal 29 out for a night sail.

We had a nice slow sail about 2-1/2 miles or so from the marina. In what seemed like just a few minutes the storm suddenly started developing towards us so we turned around and headed back to the marina. Next thing we know it's popping lightning bolts very much like my video. They were hitting all around us on the hill tops.

It's at that time my buddy tells me the Atomic 4 in the boat has a gas leak if it's running. We felt we had no other option but to run for it so we fired it up (we were either going to die by lightning or by a big boom).

I don't think I've ever been so scared in my life. Needless to say we made it back.

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