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 Luff battens in a jib??		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts
Initially Posted - 06/07/2010 :  09:53:50  Show Profile  Visit Prospector's Homepage
Can anyone explain why a jib would be supplied with Battens in its luff? I have a 110% UK jib with 3 battens extending about 2 feet back from the luff (leading edge) of the sail.

It seems that this is th earea where control of shape is most critical, and rather than stiffening it flat up there, you would want to have some curvature. Am I wrong? I found that th ebattens are very easily fouled while I was racing this past weekend, and I'm hoping tha ta better understanding of their purpose will help me in how I use the sail.

Thanks!
"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts
Response Posted - 06/07/2010 :  10:20:38  Show Profile  Visit aeckhart's Homepage
I couln't find anything on their web site regarding battens on a genoa. Like you I don't see a need for them. I've seen reef points built into a genoabut not battens. Is this a new sail you purchased or one a PO had made for the boat?
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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts
Response Posted - 06/07/2010 :  10:25:46  Show Profile  Visit Prospector's Homepage
The PO supplied 2 sets of sails with the boat - this was one of the "racing sails" it is a UK Halsey sail. Apart from the battens it is quite a nice sail, but the battens cause me much grief.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5906 Posts
Response Posted - 06/07/2010 :  10:55:51  Show Profile
My North racing jib (110%) had battens in the leech. I have never understood what purpose was intended to be served by them. The detriment was that they wouldn't stay in the batten pocket. They caught on the shrouds and flipped out of the batten pocket, tearing the batten pocket or the sailcloth in the process. I left them out, and the sail was still a great sail - very fast. If they supported a big roach, I could perhaps understand their purpose, but they didn't support a big roach. When I left them out, the roach didn't collapse and the sail still had good shape.

I'd suggest you leave them out and see how the sail sets without them. If it still looks good, I'd forget about them. I won a lot of races without the jib battens.
Edited by - Steve Milby on 06/07/2010 10:58:09
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  06:38:18  Show Profile
I'd e-mail them and ask. If it's causing a problem, describe that too. They might have a document on the subject.
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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  08:29:48  Show Profile
This is from north sails, but nothing said about luff battens.

http://www.northsailsdirect.net/nsd/JibBattens/tabid/17372/language/en-US/Default.aspx
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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  09:03:32  Show Profile  Visit Prospector's Homepage
Thanks David, I saw that one, and actually went to one of those learn to sail websites to make sure I had th eright side of the sail in my head. No Battens in the leech, just the luff. Weird.

I emailed the PO, but after 3 years his addy may not be the same. I was going to email th eloft the sails were made at, but UK Halsey no longer appears to have a loft in Detroit, and our local guy was less than accommodating when I tried to reach him last.

We have a smallish local sailmaker, Performance Sails, maybe I'll ping him and see if he can offer any ideas. He was very helpful with reconditioning my Tapedrive when it started delaminating.
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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  09:28:19  Show Profile  Visit Prospector's Homepage
I just called UK Halsey Toronto, Detroit (which is now Doyle Sails), and Chicago.

No one is familiar with this. The Chicago loft asked me to send in photos of the sails so I have asked other folks I was racing against if they have pics of Iris sailing with them. The Chicago folks sound genuinely interested, and all of them sound completely stumped. I may send them a photo of the headboard, maybe they still have records from building the sails someplace.
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  09:36:46  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Prospector</i>
<br />...rather than stiffening it flat up there, you would want to have some curvature...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">[speculation]For racing, a 110 is generally meant for higher winds. Higher winds call for a flatter sail. The only control for flattening a jib is the sheet pulling on the clew, which is less effective toward the head and luff of the sail, especially with the sub-optimal sheeting angle for the smaller sail on a C-25. Therefore, somebody decided battens up front would help to make a "kife edge" entry for better efficiency and pointing in a good breeze.[/speculation]
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/08/2010 09:40:52
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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  09:50:13  Show Profile  Visit Prospector's Homepage
I was thinking similarly Dave - with the tapered end forward, maybe the idea is to sheet tighter, but have the battens tensioned, forcing them to keep some shape up front. Still guesswork though.

The Chicago guy suggested that maybe they were trying to replicate Tuff luff when the sails were built. I wonder if anyone will have pics from the weekend.
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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  10:15:07  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage
I've seen battens in non-overlapping headsails for about 10-12 years, but never as described here.

I found this regarding Melges 24's - it might help???

http://www.melges24.com/?p=news/&id=1803
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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  20:04:18  Show Profile  Visit Prospector's Homepage
SOMEONE MOVED MY BATTENS!!!

I went to the boat tonight to get photos of the sail, and someone has moved the battens from the luff to the leech of the sail. I don't really mind since they make more sense there anyways, but man did they ever me look stupid.
Edited by - Prospector on 06/08/2010 20:05:02
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts
Response Posted - 06/08/2010 :  20:52:47  Show Profile
We...... were...... ummmm..... beginning to...... wonder.
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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts
Response Posted - 06/24/2010 :  07:28:38  Show Profile  Visit Prospector's Homepage
So I just found out th ehost club posted pics of the start (including my screwed up headsail) adn you know it doesn't look as bad from the comittee boat. I thought I had a major clusterfluck on my hands, but looking at teh pics, its just the sail folded over itself.



Still slowed the boat down and forced me to have a redo on my start though.
Edited by - Prospector on 06/24/2010 07:30:21
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