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Trailer or Not to Trailer

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dflynnatc
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/08/2010 : 04:30:11

More food for thought....

Bought C25 in April. On trailer, but not with included with purchase. Thinking of end of season, off season work, because I have a possibility of getting a tandem powerboat trailer for a couple of hundred. It would require some modifications but....would it be worth the effort? Is the conversion that extreme?

I've seen some of the trailer pictures on here, and this -while not a sailboat trailer- may suffice. So anyone willing to share what would I should know prior to purchasing? Not "planning" on trailering regularly. Maybe 2 HR trip home at end of season for winter storage and/or 5 minute trip to property near Chesapeake.

Additional Questions:
Maintenance/boat work: pro's/con's of laying up on trailer vs on blocks/chocks?

Which one is recommended for work on keel?

Without a launching tongue, will I be restricted to travel lift pulling boat and placing on trailer?

Dennis Flynn
1979 C-25 SR/SK
Hull 1042
Rock Hall,MD
Via
Skippack, PA

Edited by - dflynnatc on 06/08/2010 08:52:35

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 05:39:30

Swing keel makes a difference.

My experience has been thta a tandem axle flatbed trailer is do-able, but far far less than ideal. The biggest issue is finding the sweet spot on the trailer where the tongue weight is right. For my trailer/boat combo, the cradle has to sit so far forward, about 1/3 of the cradle is actually off the deck of th etrailer and sitting up on the triangle that goes to the trailer hitch.

Attaching the cradle to the trailer may be less of an issue than you initially think. It is easy to drill a bunch of holes through the cradle and bolt it to the trailer or to tackweld the two together.

Be sure the trailer has some sort of a braking system.

You will need a dually pickup for insurance on the tow. I wouldn't trust anything less. I once tried to tow the boat with my Astro Van (5500 lbs tow rating) with poor results. We now hire a towtruck. $50 per trip to the marina. Cash well spent.

We got our flatbed off craigslist for cheap, and it does double duty performing a variety of tasks through the summer, so I didn't mind the cost of it, but to do it again, I think the dedicated sailboat trailer would be a better choice.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 05:48:36

More stuff after reading your post again -

For working on the boat there isn't much difference, but the flatbed means I'm not dropping tools on our gravel driveway and losing stuff. Its like a big table to lay stuff out on. On th edownside you can get under the boat if its layed up on blocks. This can be overcome on the flatbed - but it takes a lot of work, and a little bit of stupid risk taking, depending on what equipment is available to you. If you are modifyin gthe trailer anyways, cut away a piece of the deck about 12" square on each side of the trailer so that you can get a jack in under the cradle to lift it and the boat, then you can block it up on the trailer. Best of both worlds, but you will never be able to drive a car up onto the flatbed.

Our drive to/from the marina is 20 minutes tops. I wouldn't push for a 2 hour drive with our setup YMMV.

We always launch via heavy equipment. We also have a fin keel so this isn't a factor in our decision. This year we were launched by a forklift so you may be able to get away with lighter equipment than a crane to put you in. Also we have rented a construction crane for 2 hours and shared costs with about 8 other boats in our marina. Works out to be a good deal too. Both of these options are cheaper than a travel lift to get you into the water from a cradle.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 05:55:28

Regarding the launching tongue.

There are no lifts on the lakes we visit, so we always trailer launch, and our trailer (a dedicated sailboat trailer) does not have a launching tongue. I launch by using a heavy duty tow strap. I can actually do the entire thing myself, however it is easier with one other person so you don't have to get wet going between the boat in the water and the suburban on the ramp.

Takes some practice, but I think we finally have it down. Takes 45-60 minutes to launch or retrieve. A few things that help: a rolling spare tire hub, an extendable mast crutch, good rubber chocks for the trailer, a high lift tongue jack.

Next addition to this process will be some kind of mast raising system. Muscling the mast up and down is getting old. Or maybe I am getting old.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 06:20:34

I should really put up a blogpost on our A-frame - it folds down to 5 ft by 1 foot, works really well, and can be stowed inth eaft quarter berth for long trips. Maybe next week or something. I've never had an extra person around to take pictures of the process, and we are already rigged for the season.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 06:24:22

Chris, I'd REALLY like to see your a-frame designs and pictures when you get some time to post them! I've looked at every design I can find, but yours sounds really ideal.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 06:56:45

I aim to please. I'll try to get to it this weekend.

Edited by - on

dflynnatc
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 06:57:48

Chris, sorry for the lack of clarity.... it is a tandem _boat_ trailer...not a flatbed. I distinguish this because -as I am new to all this- and was told/assumed that there is a difference between powerboat and sailboat trailer. The trailer my boat came on was a very expensive full length sailboat trailer, and may have been overkill, but it is my reference point at this time.

So first is that accurate? There is a difference between the two?

Second does it matter for a swing keel? I may be OK if there isn't a difference.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Swing keel makes a difference. My experience has been thta a tandem axle flatbed trailer is do-able, but far far less than ideal.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - dflynnatc on 06/08/2010 07:02:32

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 07:07:36

Oh well, maybe th eextra info will help someone else make an informed decision wrt flatbeds. I have heard that the CoG is off in a powerboat trailer but I can't speak from experience there, so I'll let others answer.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 08:36:17

Go online and look at different pictures of sailboat trailers, preferably for the C-25 SK. Also, if you know the make/model of the trailer you are thinking of buying, try to contact the mfgr. and talk to them about converting it to the C-25.

for example:

http://www.sail-trailers.com/photos

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/08/2010 08:42:40

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 10:32:56

My trailer is a former powerboat trailer for a very heavy 26 foot boat and the trailer was easily converted. It has drop axles so the boat can sit lower on the trailer. I had a trailer place make the 'risers' that lifted the rollers about 15 inches or so. I don't have an extendable tongue but I have not had a need for one yet. The ramps around here are deep enough. I'll try to get some pictures up later.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 12:07:21

Ed - would you mind taking a few closeups of the "drop axles"? SOunds intriguing, and key to my dreams of upsizing to a bigger trailerable boat one of these years...

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 12:51:54

From a Google Image search: http://www.trojan.co.nz/images/DROP%20AXLE.jpg the drop could be whatever you want. Incidentally, the Mercedes Unimog uses the opposite technology (a lifted axle) to give better ground clearance over obstacles. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/S404-300TDI-erg-chebbi.jpg Basically it has a drop axle flipped upside down to do exactly th eopposite of what we would want in a sailboat trailer - but I digress...

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 12:57:56

That's what I need to be looking for if I ever get a bigger boat. Our lakes out west drop a few feet by the end of the summer, so even when you can get a boat in during the spring, you have to always be thinking about what it will take to get them out. Even a few extra inches of clearance would be worth the effort.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 15:01:58

There should be no problem modifing a power boat trailer to be used for a sail boat trailer. You jist have to modify it. It needs a large flat piece for the keel to rest on and supports, either rollers or bunks to stop the boat from rolling over and falling off.
Making an extending tounge is easy. Click on the link in my signature and there are a few pictures of a factory EZLoader trailer. I can get lots more pics when I get home.

Edited by - on

dflynnatc
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 17:20:36

HappyD, your pics are helpful....because I don't think the trailer is the same length as the boat, so I would have some cantilever as you do.... is there any input regarding that?

df

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 There should be no problem modifing a power boat trailer to be used for a sail boat trailer. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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dflynnatc
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USA
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Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 17:26:29

Ed, thanks, do you think the modifications can be mechanically attached i.e. bolts or does it have to be welded?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ed Cassidy
 My trailer is a former powerboat trailer for a very heavy 26 foot boat and the trailer was easily converted. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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365 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 18:15:35

Please ignore the missing brake parts, the loose wheels and the clutter. I'm in the process of rebuilding the suspension.

There was no welding involved. The hardest part is actually turning out to be the bow stop.
Ed

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
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Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 18:27:59

The pictures and my statement imply that this is a work in progress. It's actually been in use about three years now but it was time to replace all the rusted stuff. Longest haul was about 200 miles each way. I didn't do a good job of showing it but the trailer ends about a foot behind the fender. the rear roller support is bolted to the rearmost crossmember, so the boat hangs past the rear of the trailer but the center of gravity of the boat is in front of the center between the two axles. It tows great and I don't have to brace the rear of the trailer when unhooked.
Ed

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 18:31:29

The main idea is to provide support for the keel, the rest of the boat comes along for the ride. The boat is fairly light without the keel.
Ed has it right. Big flat thing under the keel. Set the keel down o it for moving the boat around. You don't want the keel hanging off the cable while travelling down the road.
The trailer is shorter than the boat. The trailer doesn't need to be as long as the boat.
Dan

Edited by - Happy D on 06/08/2010 18:33:11

dflynnatc
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 19:27:17

Ed, thanks for taking the time to take and post the pics.....

Is the keel sitting on the plank? How do you handle that configuration?

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2010 : 19:47:09

Dan did a good job of explaining it. At the moment, no, the keel is not on the plank but I'm in the middle of replacing everything. The keel should be lowered onto the board for trailering so the weight of the keel is supported by the board and not the cable. Before you launch, you raise the keel back up. In short, the keel should be raised only to get the boat on and off the trailer, otherwise it's supported by the plank.
Ed

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 06:34:16

Dan - how did you build the extending tongue?

I currently use a tow strap to lower my boat deep enough in the water. This works fairly well, however when the lake bottom is very soft, the trailer can get mired down, and although it hasn't happened, I could see it getting stuck in a rut, preventing it from getting deep enough to launch.

The advantage of an extending tongue would be that I could push the boat into the water, instead of using gravity. I always assumed that the extending tongue would have to be a piece of square tube that slid into a larger square tube on the trailer, so that it didn't pivot on the trailer end. But I wonder if one could be built that just had a ball on the trailer end that connected to the trailer's hitch, and a coupler on the vehicle end that connected to the vehicle's ball. This setup would have two pivot points - one at each end of the extending tongue.

This may be obvious to everyone, but I need to ask the question, I have never seen one. If its just a bar with one male end and one female end, I'm making one! But if I have to weld a sleeve on the trailer frame, I'll probably just stick with the strap.

One more question, if the bar only connects to the trailer's hitch with a ball, I assume you still need a rolling hub for the spare tire, is that correct?

Edited by - on

glen
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Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 07:14:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Unsinkable2
 Dan - how did you build the extending tongue?

I currently use a tow strap to lower my boat deep enough in the water. This works fairly well, however when the lake bottom is very soft, the trailer can get mired down, and although it hasn't happened, I could see it getting stuck in a rut, preventing it from getting deep enough to launch.

The advantage of an extending tongue would be that I could push the boat into the water, instead of using gravity. I always assumed that the extending tongue would have to be a piece of square tube that slid into a larger square tube on the trailer, so that it didn't pivot on the trailer end. But I wonder if one could be built that just had a ball on the trailer end that connected to the trailer's hitch, and a coupler on the vehicle end that connected to the vehicle's ball. This setup would have two pivot points - one at each end of the extending tongue.

This may be obvious to everyone, but I need to ask the question, I have never seen one. If its just a bar with one male end and one female end, I'm making one! But if I have to weld a sleeve on the trailer frame, I'll probably just stick with the strap.

One more question, if the bar only connects to the trailer's hitch with a ball, I assume you still need a rolling hub for the spare tire, is that correct?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Our trailer has an extension on it. Like you described it’s a square tube (with a ball coupler) that slides through larger square tube. The larger tube is actually two smaller sections that are welded to the trailer frame. The extension is only connected to the truck at the ramp; it is never used to tow the trailer and boat over the road. When on the road it is slid back and secured, so the boat is towed with the original coupler, and the extended hitch is out of the way

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 13:04:02

There are 2 types of trailer tongue extensions:
1. The coupler is on a square tube that slides through a slightly larger tube(s) attached to the trailer rails, which extends the length of the trailer (like on our C-22 trailer) or a separate tube beside/under the regular coupler that does the same thing. These stay attached to the trailer.
2. A separate bar with a coupler on one end and a ball and wheels on the other end which goes between the tow vehicle and the trailer for launching/retrieval purposes only.
Item 1 is individual trailer specific, while item 2 can be shared easily.

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/09/2010 13:06:29

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 13:11:49

Thanks David - that helps a lot. I suppose I could build item #2, but without the wheels, since I already have a rolling spare tire hub on the tongue of the trailer?

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