Association Forum - new loose footed main!

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

new loose footed main!

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/09/2010 : 06:30:30

I just ordered a UK Halsey mainsail!! 139 sq. ft., numbers and logo, 6.3 oz. Dacron, loose foot, one reef, 1 top baton, cunnungham, etc. $890. I'm excited! Been sailing with the original 1989 main since I bought Bamboo in 06 so I can't wait to see how much better I'll point and handle! Now I'm going to have to build a nice outhaul! Any cost effective suggestions? Go with the CD outhaul?

Dave Robbins
PO to*Bamboo*
'89 SR/WK #5877
Daytona Bch., FL

http://bambooc25.weebly.com/

Edited by - DaveR on 06/09/2010 06:31:57

clenfestey
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 08:27:51

I just put a new FX Sails loose footed mainsail on my 1984 a couple of days ago. My external outhaul works great for the sail. I attach a single block at the clew of the main. Outhaul line goes from the boom end through the single block to a cheek block on the starboard side of the boom end and terminates at a cam cleat. If I should want more purchase, I can put a single block with becket at the boom end, and a double block on the clew of the main.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 08:40:04

I had a block and tackle set up on mine and found it to be overkill. Now I've just got a cleat on top/back of the boom. The self cleating cleat like the one for the main downhaul.

Kool ... a new main!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 08:43:45

Mine is a 4-1 internal outhaul from CD. Works great. Keeps the boom externally uncluttered. My only regret is that I terminated the live end over the hatch per recommendation. It's too far forward for most situations.

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

Members Avatar

89 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 09:16:03

my outhaul is internal, and the live end exits from the bottom roughly in the center of the boom. still cockpit accesible.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 09:22:31

Dave, I found that I wanted more purchase than 2:1 so I shackled a small double block (micro block for 1/4" line) to the clew and a single block to the boom end. My line runs from a pad eye on one side of the boom end through the blocks to the stock turning block on the other side of the boom end, then forward to a cleat on the boom. This give much better purchase.
If you just want to use single blocks, buy one with a becket for the boom end and start the outhaul line there, running the line to the clew block, back to the boom end and then forward to cleat.

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/09/2010 09:28:35

skrenz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 10:45:10

I use the same system that DaveP does but I use larger blocks - Harken Bullet Blocks for 5/16" line. If that's too cluttered for you at the end of the sail, you can get a 4:1 purchase using a cascade system. I would go with a minimum of 4:1

Attach a line at the end of the boom. Lead the line through the clew grommet and over to a cheek block on the other side of the boom. Then terminate this line in the head of a single block a little way forward from the end of the boom. Attach another line onto the boom forward of this block and run the line from the attachment point through this single block and then to a cleat (jamb cleat or regular cleat). If you were to pull on the line that goes through the sail clew you would have a 2:1 purchase but instead you are pulling on this line with another 2:1 purchase yielding a 4:1 purchase. See http://www.harken.com/rigtips/Outhaul.php for a visual.

Not to fog the issue, but another consideration is what to do for your out haul when you reef. It seems to me that you need the sail flattest when you are in conditions to set a reef. But I haven't seen an elegant approach to solving this problem for Cat 25s.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 11:11:55

For reefing, I leave the outhaul as is and have another cheek block for the reefing line positioned slightly behind the reef cringle. That way, I can bring the reef cringle right down to the boom.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2010 : 20:39:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 Now I'm going to have to build a nice outhaul! Any cost effective suggestions?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I built an outhaul, after reading about it on this Forum, since I had just a simple line held in a cam cleat that previously held my loose-footed main. I happened to find an extra mainsheet tackle setup in perfect condition on my boat, thanks to the PO, and I just cut the sheet very short. It gives a 3:1 advantage when pulling forward and is nice to use. If I pull both port and starboard sides of the line with both hands, I think it gives a 6:1 advantage.

You could add another block in the center to add more mechanical advantage if you want. I bet you could pick up a few fiddle blocks and other turning blocks to make your own setup any way you like at one of the good chandleries ([url="http://www.sailors-exchange.com/"]Sailor's Exchange [/url][url="http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/"], Minney's Yacht Surplus[/url], or [url="http://baconsails.biz/lineshackles.html"]Bacon Sails[/url]).

They could give you prices by email, and you could save a lot.

You're gonna love your new sail, Dave. Happy sailing.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3463 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 03:21:49

John - Nice configuration !!

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 06:21:28

Great input guys, thanks a lot. I like the simplicity of John's approach. The internal looks real clean but the external will be quick and easy and less expensive. I CAN'T WAIT!! hahaha

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 06:24:23

John, do you have any pics of your topping lift configuration?

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering, this sail has 1 full baton up top to support the large roach with the rest being standard, not just one baton as previously described

Edited by - DaveR on 06/10/2010 06:45:14

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 07:21:18

Dave,

I think you will really like your larger roach in light air. I know I do. One thing to look out for is the tendancy of the roach batten to hang up on the back stay durng a tack in light air. You'll suddenly notice the boat being very sluggish and difficult to control. You'll have to leave the tiller and give the backstay a good jerk to get the batten unstuck.

You may also notice having to reef earlier than you used to. At least that's what I've found on my tall rig. Perhaps others with a stanard rig, large-roach main can impart their experience with the sail.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 07:46:34

Dave, we have the UK Halsey Main, and it regularly makes me look good. Ours has 4 Battens, the longets being the top and bottom. If you plan on stowing th esail, be sure to label the battens in a way that makes sense to you. Also label which end goes in first or you may have someone put them in backwards, adversely affecting the shape of the sails. I don't know anyone who has ever made that mistake...

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 08:53:44

Dave,
My outhall is only that light line you see, tied with 2 half-hitches. I would prefer a clam cleat on the boom, so I didn't have to slide the knots to raise the boom at the dock or at anchor. I guess that's project #101 on my list!

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 04:16:01

I made up my own 8:1 internal outhaul with a cascade of bullet blocks.

I started with a stainless steel outhaul car with a built in wire block. The wire is attached at the aft end of the boom just off center. After passing through the outhaul car, the wire goes through a small stainless steel cheek block on the opposite side of the aft end of the boom. As the wire leads back forward, it goes internal through a slot in the boom. The moving end of the wire is attached to the bail of a 1/4" ball bearing bullet block inside the boom.

A 1/4" braided polyester line inside the boom is anchored to a 5/16" cross bolt near the gooseneck, passes around the sheeve of the 1/4" bullet block on the end of the wire, and attaches to the the bail of another 3/16" ball bearing bullet block inside the boom.

A 3/16" braided polyester line inside the boom is also anchored to the bolt near the gooseneck, passes around the sheeve of the 3/16" bullet block on the end of the 1/4" line. The 3/16" line applies 8:1 force to the outhaul car.

What you do with the end of the 3/16" line depends on where you want to adjust the outhaul from. I use a pivoting turning block with a cam cleat hanging below the boom about 4' or so aft of the gooseneck. There's a plastic ball on the end of the 3/16" line.

So the parts list includes:
<ul><li>SS outhaul car w/block</li><li>SS cheek block w/fasteners</li><li>1/4" bullet block</li><li>3/16" bullet block</li><li>3/16" turning block</li><li>pivoting turning block with a cam cleat</li><li>3/16" I.D. ball</li><li>wire</li><li>1/4" braided polyester line</li><li>3/16" braided polyester line</li><li>5/16" SS anchor bolt w/nut</li></ul>If anyone would like more details, let me know.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 09:23:38

Hi John,
I understand about the outhaul. I also see your topping lift in the pic and would like to see how you did it. I don't like my configuration and figure yours is better

And thanks for the info Leon, but that's a very involved outhaul (how do you install all that stuff inside the boom?) and what happens when it goes wrong?

Al, I was aware of the back stay problem from reading about it here, probably your post, and discussed it with the rep. he said he'll make sure it'll sneak by the stay (barely). And with our light winds I think you're right, I'll enjoy that extra sail area!

Edited by - DaveR on 06/11/2010 09:31:02

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 12:08:35

Here's how my topping lift is rigged:

The line comes from the top of the mast, through the block at the end of the boom, and I tie a knot just above that. The extra 2 feet of line is tied further up along the topping lift to get it out of the way.

This setup was made by a PO, and I would like to add a small clam cleat a foot or so forward along the boom, to make the topping lift more easily adjustable.

p.s. - Hey, Dave - Have you got to go out past the Ponce Inlet this spring? I guess you have nice ocean swells, too, like in South Carolina. Happy sailing with your new main!

Edited by - JohnP on 06/11/2010 12:13:27

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 12:15:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 
Al, I was aware of the back stay problem from reading about it here, probably your post, and discussed it with the rep. he said he'll make sure it'll sneak by the stay (barely). And with our light winds I think you're right, I'll enjoy that extra sail area!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We always have backstay issues. My work-around has been to slightly lower the sail rather than hoisting it all the way to the masthead. This may mean I miss some of the breeze up high on a slow day, but it seems to work OK.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 12:27:38

I was looking at a pic on your blog of Iris and you can really see the extra sail area!

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 20:09:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 ...And thanks for the info Leon, but that's a very involved outhaul (how do you install all that stuff inside the boom?) and what happens when it goes wrong?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, so far it's been working for over 10 years with no problems at all. It is important to take into consideration whether there are any potential snags inside the boom, such as long self tapping screws. The only thing it's needed has been to occasionally lube the outhaul car at the track, which is external, and would need to be done to most any outhaul, regardless of type.

As for getting it inside the boom, I probably had both end caps off. I laid out the whole outhaul along side the boom. I figured out the best line lengths (longest travel while still able to haul back to the end of the boom). The wire terminations are made with doubled Nico-Press style crimp sleeves w/SS thimbles. (I think the anchored end of the wire had to be terminated last, after putting everything inside the boom and threading the wire through its blocks.) The double braid ends are eye splices. After cutting, splicing, and assembling everything outside the boom, a fish line was used to pull it inside the boom. The fwd anchor bolt is within 6" of the fwd end, so it was easy to guide the bolt through the loops in the ends of the lines using a bent coat hanger wire hook or similar.

After looking at my outhaul installation, there's one additional part I forgot to mention. The 3/16" tail is lead fwd inside the boom to a ball bearing exit block under the fwd end of the boom. From there, it leads back externally to the Ronstan swivel cam cleat hanging below the boom. The location of the cam cleat was a carefully chosen compromise between being as far back as possible for access from the cockpit on a beat, but close enough to the gooseneck to still be reachable from the side decks while on a run with the boom near the shrouds without having to hang dangerously far out over the lifelines.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2010 : 06:39:35

John, Thanks for explaining. My topping lift is also from the mast head to the boom only with a small D shackle for the up position and looped line around the boom end for the lower position. Not very good, I need to improve that config. I'll need to shorten my Bimini to do this correctly. And as to your question about getting out the inlet, NO sadly. And yeah, we usually get 1-4 ft lazy swells nicely spaced, great for sailing. Maybe tomorrow!

Edited by - DaveR on 06/12/2010 06:40:18

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2010 : 06:47:05

Leon, Thanks again for the explanation. Of course this would be the preferred setup. And I could just bring the boom to work with me where I have a bench and the right tools. That would make the process easier.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2010 : 08:39:02

Takes about five minutes to get the boom off. Now if you can only convince your boss.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2010 : 11:43:19

That's the good part. I'm the boss

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2010 : 12:08:21

That's right! You have the storage place.

It really does take about 5 minutes to get the boom off.

I splurged for the CD topping lift. It would be easy to copy this one and could probably be done for less money.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=480&ParentCat=40

Edited by - GaryB on 06/12/2010 12:12:40

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.