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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

More pics of the boat I'm looking at.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/11/2002 : 13:27:04

Hi All,

I said I'd post more pictures of the C25 I'm looking to buy. My concerns were the bottom paint and the trailer, which most people said didn't look like a big issue from the one picture I posted earlier.

some of you expressed interest in more pictures, so here they are. (if I can post them properly.)

Thanks,

Ben

first picture is my wife in front of the boat.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf30b3127cce918b2ea709020000001410" border=0>

This next picture is what I'm thinking might be a blister.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf30b3127cce918b2930490e0000001410" border=0>

These next two are pictures of the flaking bottom paint.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf30b3127cce918b2e0b09ae0000001410" border=0>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf30b3127cce918b299649a80000001410" border=0>

This last is a picture of me, so you can put a face with the name. I'm the one with the fishing vest.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf24b3127cce91ecba4a829b0000001410" border=0>

Ben

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 15:26:55

Ben,

For me it is tough to respond to a series of pictures, perhaps others can do a ggo job for you. In my opinion, the most important thing to do is to a marine surveyor look over your boat. He will help you understand condition and the steps you need to follow in order to fix any problems.

The money spent for our srvey was well worth every dollar, and allowed me to buy with confidence. What I did was make my offer subject to a satisfactory marine survey. It gave me an out if the surveyor found any serious problems. When his review confirmed what I thought as I looked at the boat on my inspection trips to it, I felt comfortable completing the purchase.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 15:29:00

Mmm1 Interesting thing in the guy in the fishing vest's hands!

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

LOREN SOUERS
Navigator

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USA
100 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 15:44:34

Ben,
Some guys will do anything to show off their fish. (Particularly to those of us who couldn't catch a fish if life depended on it.)

Loren Souers, Cap'n
Nimue, The Lady of the Lake

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 15:52:30

Was I really that transparent? I've been showing that fish to everybody!

Seriously though, thanks for your responses. I WILL have a survey done. I hope this weekend. I talked to a guy today who said he would do it for $500.00, which is more than he usually would charge, but the boat is in Atwood Lake, about 2.5 hours (he said) from Cleveland, where he is coming from. That was more than I was hoping to spend, but I may have to.

Ben
Ben

Ben

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 17:08:54

Ben, I'm no expert on blisters, but that one looks a little bigger than most blisters I have seen. In addition to the survey, why don't you show that photo to a boat fiberglass repairer and ask what he thinks about it, just to be on the safe side.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 19:39:52

Ben,

I, generally, don't like to give advice about a specific boat I haven't seen, because I don't want to risk encouraging someone into a bad deal or scaring away someone from a good one. Additionally, to me, buying a boat is a personal and emotional decision that is made by the heart with guidance from the head.

Now, having eased my conscience by saying that, from the pictures it looks like the boat's hull was a bit neglected(not unusual) and is in need of a bottom job(blister repair?, epoxy?, antifouling?, keel?). Furthermore, the trailer appears to suffer from the same neglect(again, not unusual) and will need some maintenance. Now, since there is evidence of neglect I have to wonder,...were the sails and motor neglected too?...How old is the motor? Original?...runnning and standing rigging?...What about swing keel maintenance? Was it done?...What are the condition of the sails?...etc.

A quick search at Yachtworld suggests that the $12,000 asking price of this boat puts it at the top end of the price spectrum. For a boat to be at the top end of it's price range, I would expect that boat to need much less work than one at the bottom of the scale. From the pictures and information you provided, in my opinion, this boat appears to need a lot of work and money for a boat whose asking price is at the top of the price range. At the very least this boat needs a bottom job, trailer job, and keel maintenance. On top of that, it will probably need other issues addressed because I have yet to find a person who bought a boat without saying, "I need to replace this, or repair that, install this, take apart that,...etc". How much will all this cost? $2,000, $3,000,… $5,000,…who knows? Since you've owned boats before, I don't think have to tell you about the lucrative investment opportunities a boat provides <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>! When I purchased North Star, it suffered from owner neglect also, and this neglect was reflected in both the asking price and the actual purchase price. As a matter of fact, I’m almost embarrassed to say what I paid for my boat

If I were you, I would do an extremely thorough self- or friend-guided pre-survey to determine if the boat's value is worth the professional $500.00 survey. Because what happens if the $500.00 survey reveals the boat’s value at only $8,000.00 and the owner still wants $12,000? Do you walk away $500.00 poorer or pay the asking price?

Just remember to do your homework and best of luck to you!

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
Catalina

Edited by - on

A Devries
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 19:49:40

Ben; Here is my 2 cents worth which converted to USD is around a cent for what it's worth. Yes the boat has blisters. More than you may think. From looking at your pictures all the really small places along the water line where the antifouling paint is missing are likely blisters as well. I'm not sure if your as handy at repairing a boat's hull as you are with a fishing rod but repairing blisters isn't a big deal. It takes a minimum of skill and a lot of time. It isn't hard to get good results. The price of the boat should reflect the amount of work needed to be done on it. There are a lot of posts on this site about how to fix them. It took me about 14 days working at it to repair our boat. I like puttering around and fixing things. I know that is one of the reasons I like owning a boat. There is aways something to fix.
One last point, the cost of your survey is 1/6 of what we paid for our boat last year. I've worked in an autobody shop and have built several sailboards and cedar strip canoes. I was very comfortable buying our boat without a survey (it was my first sailboat). This site has a wealth of information about these boats. If you read up you may know more about the faults of these boats than the surveyor. I don't expect every one to do what I did, but trust yourself if it looks like a fish, swims like a fish, smells like a fish, it may just be a fish. I'll get of my soapbox now.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Albert

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 20:44:46

"I was very comfortable buying our boat without a survey...This site has a wealth of information about these boats. If you read up you may know more about the faults of these boats than the surveyor." - Albert

I agree with Albert, but I didn't want to say it. I, too, have never had a survey done when purchasing a sailboat! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> Firstly, if you are not familiar with boat construction, hull repair/maintenance, outboard motor repair/maintenance, rigging, sails...etc, then you should have someone more knowledgable(professional or otherwise) look at the boat for you. Also, if the price of the boat is considerable, your bank/insurance agent may require it, and/or you just might want the peace of mind.

Before I bought North Star, I armed myself with as much C25 specific knowledge as I could find and then inspected every square inch of her on three different occasions. I felt comfortable in my assessment and bought her. I got such a good deal that I could have absorbed double my purchase price for repairs or upgrades if a deficiency cropped up after the purchase.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
Catalina

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 21:34:53

with the shrink wrap on, will you be able to inspect the interior?
Be sure to have the brakes checked out, I'll bet they are all rusted out. How much fishing time will it take to do the bottom job? I'll bet it would cost about 1500 to 2000 to have it professionally redone. The keel needs to be sandblasted too.

Frank

Frank

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 23:06:34

Ben, the boat you are evaluating looks like it has good potential. The hull appears to have a pretty good shine plus the blue shrink wrap on top says the owner cared about the boat, at least above the waterline.
Ya boy, the bottom looks pretty ugly. I had a few blisters as big as what's shown with no issues. Choose the right products and you'll avoid that build-up in the future. There's as much paint on the trailer rollers as the bottom of the boat <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> ! Too bad they didn't spill some on the trailer!

Edited by - OJ on 11/11/2002 23:09:35

Edited by - on

frank679
1st Mate

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USA
42 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2002 : 23:57:07

Ben, I can't help feeling the seller is asking too much. I bought my boat in 1999 for $5,750. It has all the usual equipment including Roller Furling and an outboard. The bottom had VC17 coating. The seller originally asked $7,500 but I talked him down. I have had no problems with the boat. I hope this helps you in making an offer.

Good Luck.

Frank. 1983,TR/FK Hull # 3816

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2002 : 00:53:17

I found this ad for a 1984 C25 wing keel on the Catalina Owners website for $10,000 OBO. The trailer looks similar to the one you are looking at.

Standard features of the Catalina 25: Standard rigging,with adjustable split back stay, traveler. Fixed wing keel (3'6''draft). Pop top, standard interior with tan plaid cushions. White cockpit cushions. Lewmar winches with handle. Standard rudder and new tiller in 99. Lifelines, Anchor locker with Dansforth anchor plus chain and 150' rode. Alcohol stove. Built in head. Two sinks.

Extra gear included: Trail-Rite double axle trailer with brakes, launch ramp extension. 1995 Mariner 15 hp. outboard, low hours. 3.5 gal gas tank. Roller reefing 150% Geona, main sail, spinnaker, sail covers and sail bags. Dual battery system with Guest charger and switch. West Marine band radio. Saturn bulkhead mounted compass. Carpet, fire extinguishers, Improvements to the hull, deck, rigging, engine, or interior: Teflon bottom paint. Marine radio new in 99 Saturn compass new in 97. Motor new in 95. New running rigging.
General condition and any additional information: Boat is in good condition, needs some cleaning but ready to go in the water.
Price $10,000 USD Or best offer

http://www.sailboatowners.com/classified/photos/31167549541031/Image01.jpg

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
Catalina

Edited by - dlucier on 11/12/2002 00:57:48

Edited by - dlucier on 11/12/2002 00:58:28

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2002 : 12:52:28

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The trailer looks similar to the one you are looking at.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Egads!

Where are all these rusty trailers coming from? I guess I was lucky with the purchase of OJ.

Ya, Ben, I think the Michigan boat deserves a look. Heck, half the fun of boat shopping are the road trips with friends dude!
Remember, don't get emotional about a boat until you receive a positive survey and the numbers work.
Good luck and keep us posted!

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2002 : 14:58:37

Well, I've taken a step back from the 1986 model C25 at Atwood Lake. The owner already said he won't go below 12k, and he's not really sure he wants to sell it anyway. That with the flaky bottom makes me think I might be able to find a better deal elsewhere. I am looking at another boat in Michigan. It's an 87, SR/SK that hasn't been in the water for prolonged periods of time, so it looks as if the bottom is in much better shape. I'm going up next weekend to see how it looks overall. I'll keep you all informed.

Thanks again. This board has been an invaluable resource to me. If it weren't for you guys, this newbie would be lost. Everyone's advise is tremendously appreciated. And believe me, I'll probably be asking a lot more questions when I finally do find a boat, so please be patient with me. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Sincerely,

Ben

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2002 : 16:07:42

We're trading sailing advice for fishin' hole locations aren't we ?

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2002 : 17:36:27

Hey Ben,

Are you sure that humongous fish came out of that little stream, or did it make its way into your hands from the local fish market? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Good luck in your search ... I'm sure you'll find the perfect boat for y'all ... this is the time to be looking!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2002 : 21:41:47

I suppose I can share my fishing hole with you, if you really want to know. But you have to promise not to say where you heard it. A fisherman is never supposed to tell you those things.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ben

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2002 : 12:47:13

Don,

A wing keel 1984 C-25!!!!!!!!!

I looked at the picture and sure enough it is a wing keel.

Okay lets go back in time.

1: In 1983 Australia wins the Americas cup with the wing keel boat.

2: The whole world goes crazy and everything from then on has a wing keel.

3: Catalina recognises the trend and in 1987 introduces the wing keel and drops..oops, bad pun....the swing keel.

Could this 1984 be a retrofitted boat or an early factory job. The 3'6" draft is not right for a 1987 through 1990 winger.

Huh!

Paul

Edited by - on

Randolph G. Wilson
1st Mate

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USA
64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2002 : 15:05:32

I bought a 1984 Catalina 25 last summer, so I am fairly familiar with the buying process, and I agree with the recommendations of others to obtain a survey or at least an inspection by someone that knows the class. There are several boats here on Lake Lanier (near Atlanta) advertised for $5m-$9m. I can't remember ever seeing one for as much as $12m. I paid a little less than $8m for mine. It had been hauled last year, the bottom cleaned and repainted and blisters repaired. It has a 2 year old 9.9 HP Honda outboard. My surveyor said I was paying too much for the boat except for the value of the OB. Since then I have spent another $1500 or so upgrading. Replace wire halyards with rope, relocated the jib winch and installed halyard clutches, installed a topping lift, boom vang, and various smaller items that make the boat safer and easier to handle.

I would be happy to help you find a boat here if you haven't already made the plunge. Regardless, I think you will enjoy the Catalina.

Edited by - on

RL
1st Mate

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USA
76 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2002 : 15:45:17

Ben,
I thought I was looking in my photo album when I looked at your first picture. My 78 SR/SK is within 15 feet of the boat you were looking at. I don't know if you checked in the Marina office, but earlier this fall they had 4 - 5 25s for sale. When I checked about listing ours I was told that they hadn't sold a 25 all summer. And this was with prices in the $6,000 to $10,000 range. I don't know the quality of them, but there is quite a large number of 25s on this lake. Attwood is a good lake, a little small, but the marina is excellent. Good luck.
RL

Free Spirit

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2002 : 12:16:47

I agree that this boat looks quite overpriced. And I also don't pay for a survey for a boat that is selling for less than 10K or so, but then, I know a bit about what to look for. IMHO, the primary thing that a surveyor can do that most of us can't is check the core moisture level with a moisture meter. It is helpful, but worth the $$? I just assume that there is some moisture in the core around hardware, etc. If the deck feels solid and non-crunchy then one is usually okay. But if I was a real novice, I would seriously consider a survey.

When you guys give advice on price, remember that a trailer will add at LEAST 2K to the price of the boat.....or at least it should....It is difficult to find a used, serviceable trailer for less than that! One can find a fixed keel C25 w/o trailer for a LOT less than one that is trailerable, and equipped with a decent trailer.

As for the boat in the photo....IF it had a new, blister-fixed bottom, the trailer sandblasted and painted, the keel refinished, as well as decent sail inventory and some goodies, it might get into the $10k region... maybe.....But in my area of the country, in the shape it's in: NO WAY.....

Gary B.
Encore! #685

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2002 : 21:19:46

Adding one brief voice to the chorus, Orion was less that 6 grand with a new motor in 2001 and a new mast and sails in 1994, from the original owner. He was no bear for maintenance, but I have a lot less to do than it looks like you would have. I would let the guy on the lake look for somebody else to cough up twelve grand. You can do better. The less emotional you are, the better. Hard to do with lovely things like boats, do your best, Ron Orion srsk #2343 FLA

Edited by - on

kruhlin
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 00:31:53

Ben,

I'm brand new to sailing. I just bought a Catalina 25 for less than half your price. The bottom had one tiny blister, other than that the bottom paint was in excellent contition. Other than some exterior fiberglass reconditioning, the boat is in great shape. I waited over two years for the right buying opportunity. Now is the time. I'm at Lake Lanier, GA and ther are several Catalina 25's listed in the area. I've talked with several brokers - things just aren't moving for sellers.

I know very little about sailboats and decided on a professional survey. I paid $400 for one and it was a complete waste of money. I've learned more from this forum and talking with others. I'm sure there are good surveyors out there - somewhere.

Good Luck,

Kurt

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