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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

swing keel crash

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sacco48
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/26/2010 : 04:26:10

Hello all new to forum. Just purchased a 84 c25 swing keel. replaced the winch, cable etc as precaution. took it out sailing first time and tried to lower the keel and it came crashing down. seems clutch was engaged some what. raised to see if it would come up and it did. tried to lower again and just free wheeled and crashed down. boat is not taking on water and I looked at keel trunk under water with goggles. do not see any cracks. took wood cover off inside and no cracks and no water. can they fall without major damage? ( am i just Lucky)? called fulton winch and they said brake might not have been engaged from factory. It happens from time to time he told me. sending me a new one sending them the old(just purchased) one. again the boat is dry no water in bilge or anywhere else. what should I be looking for and can I sail the season and inspect at the end?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 04:34:40

Very sorry to hear about your mishap.

Jeez, at a minimum I would want to pull the boat and inspect the bottom exterior - then you'll find out if you were lucky or not.

Did the keel free-wheel down from the fully raised position?

Edited by - OJ on 06/26/2010 04:35:16

sacco48
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 04:53:00

yes it was fully raised. thank you for your quick reply. I am not sure if I should contact insurance (i think it would be covered)

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 05:56:24

I'm just amazed you didn't crack the keel trunk. I would expect a keel free fall to do some damage. Pull the boat and inspect the exterior for cracks, repair as necessary. Take good photos. Involve your insurance if you think repairs will exceed your deductible enough to be worth the hassle. If resulting damage was due to a faulty winch, seems to me the winch maker is liable; will Fulton cover the repairs? Are you sure you got the correct winch for the application?
If no exterior cracks and no leaks inside, install new winch, test, and go sailing, but continue to watch for leaks.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 07:06:36

Did it totally free fall like if the cable was disconnected or did the winch just unwind really fast yet still offer some type of resistance? If it just unwound really fast it may have had enough resistance to minimize/prevent any damage.

I agree with DavidP though, I'd pull the boat and inspect it. Be sure to closely inspect the keel hangers and the area around them for damage/cracks in addition to the keel truck.

If you're sure you bought the correct winch and if it turns out there is damage I would file a claim with Fulton for any repairs. Probably wouldn't hurt to let your insurance company know what's going on in case they end up having to cover the repairs and subrogate against Fulton to recover their loss.

Since Fulton said the brake may not have been engaged from the factory and that it happens from time to time it suggests they know they have a problem and have not taken enough measures to correct/eliminate the problem. It also screams that their quality control is lacking or they would catch the problems before they left the factory.

I'm not a lawyer or a claims adjuster (I was married to one) but makes sense to me.

Hope all the extra work turns out to be for naught.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 08:03:20

Also, I believe that the winches for our boats are different from trailer winches. When you replaced the winch, did you get it from CD, the Catalina factory, or a other source?

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dflynnatc
1st Mate

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USA
65 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 10:12:46

I launched my newly purchased 79 SK in April. Since being on the forum, I developed a healthy concern for my SK system status; something i couldn't establish from the trailer before launching. Now small noises and hiccups giving me pause. I think I need to follow the same advice and just pull the boat.

So, If he (or one) pulls his boat , what things would he want to check while it is up? Anything a newbie would also want to check? Would the yards opinion be sufficient? or would you prefer to be the "SME" (subject matter expert).

df

Edited by - dflynnatc on 06/26/2010 10:14:13

sacco48
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 10:37:31

Hello all thank you for all your replies. just came back from boat again to check things out. Boat is bone dry. snorkeled again with light did not see any cracks or crushed glass. for the man who asked about the free wheel it did spin off the wheel did not snap. I did order the k 1550 winch from catalina direct. waiting to get new winch from fulton then going to pull boat. I think next year going to move mooring to deeper area and leave keel down all season and then only have to worry about it twice a year (in and out)

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 14:33:37

I'm betting it free-wheeled at a fast rate off the winch but slow enough to keep it from damaging the keel trunk.

Also, I've heard leaving the keel down all the time accelerates wear on the keel pin and bushing causing the keel to get sloppy and clunk back and forth.

Edited by - on

sacco48
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 15:19:34

sounds like I might be trading for an oday 26 soon!!! too bad because I love this boat!!! we'll see how new winch and the rest of season goes

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 16:35:46

This happened to me once, when my son raised the keel by cranking it to the left. At the top, it wouldn't hold (go figure), and, when he let go of the winch handle I instinctively reached for it. Ever put your hand in a propeller? Miraculously, I only lost a fingernail.

Left/lower, right/raise. Is there any possibility you cranked it the wrong way?

In 12 years of ownership and three winches (replaced because of corrosion), that's the only "failure" I've had.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 17:48:38

For you guys with swing keels go to this site for some great information on maintaince and such. For all of us there's also a wealth of information on all types of boat projects. It's a guy with a C22 but the information has some value for C25's too. He has some great sailing adventures too.

http://www.chipford.com/index.htm

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 19:16:16

My only failure was in the middle eighties sometime on a previous boat. I didn't know much about swing maintenance and didn't replace the keel cable when I bought the boat. I bumped across a number of stumps in a shallow lake in my second season with her and the cable snapped with no damage to the hull. I quickly learned the essentials and became conscientious, but not fanatical, about care and feeding a swinger. I have not had an issue since then. Make sure your entire system from the winch to the keel attachment and pivot assembly is good to start with, give it annual inspections and appropriate repair/replacement as indicated and relax.

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sacco48
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 04:50:25

Thanks again I sent fulton a pic of the winch via email and they seem to think the clutch was not set in factory. I took multiple pics of gears and when I get the new on I will send the old one to them and I am going to request a report. This is what they told me on the phone. I hope I am one of the lucky ones with little or no damage. boat is still dry

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Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2010 : 02:56:44

Dave, You must have sailed at St. Marys hence the stumps... We also sailed there and hit one breaking the Keel cable while racing almost throwing the wife into the cabin from the cockpit, not good

but luckily all the was fixed by a new cable and a lesson. we also had a wing keel do a thump on a stump and just put a ding in it. Now this summer again we -us, the wing keel and another 25 swing are at Lake Erie at anchors Away on Catawba. No stumps there!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2010 : 03:29:04

Indian Lake, maybe even worse, Erie is is definitely stump-less, but Spring launch up the Portage River can be a little shaky.

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.