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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

In hull transducer hull material

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daves78
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/27/2010 : 05:15:09

I tried to install an in hull transducer without success. the service manual says that if the hull has a core it will not work. As far as I can tell the Hull is solid glass and very thick. Has anyone tried to install and in hull or has any ideas if the hull has a core.

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sacco48
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 05:40:25

sorry mine was already installed but from what I can tell theknotmeter and depth finder were drilled through the hull. it was installed in the bow section of the boat. open the hatch below v berth were the valve for sink is hope this helps

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 07:33:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by daves78
 ...has any ideas if the hull has a core.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It does not. How did you set the transducer? Any air will be a problem...

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 09:16:34

Take a wax toilet bowl ring, break off a 1/4 of the ring, stick it aginst the inside of the hull without kneading it, stick transducer into the wax as far as it will go without directly touching the hull, turn on the unit and see if you get a reading.

If you knead the wax very much it will get small air bubbles in it and you will not get a reading or it will be erratic.

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daves78
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 09:36:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by daves78
 ...has any ideas if the hull has a core.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It does not. How did you set the transducer? Any air will be a problem...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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daves78
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 09:38:53

tried it both with petroleum jelly and in water per instructions. Sanded the inside of the hull pretty smooth but not completely. No luck either way now transducer works because I can hang it over the side and it reads fine

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mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 09:48:18

The hull is thicker particularly around the keel and the keel trunk and does not allow the signal to go through. You have to move the transducer around to find a thinner spot, I previously used a Hummingbird depth finder and set the transducer in a wax ring and had it about 18-20" away from the keel trunk towards the port side.

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TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 10:18:20

Dave,
I with you, tried different spots with the wax with no luck. Only a mess.
tom

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 12:34:06

Depends on the unit, too. I tried first with a Hawkeye from Norcross without success and sold it. Later bought an Eagle Cuda 168 (current version is the 300) and it works. I also have a 1984 boat. I used the toilet wax ring method placing the transducer just behind the swing keel cable (behind the ladder and under the quarterberth. Reads fine. As GaryB said, it's important to not get air bubbles in the wax. It will shoot through the hull.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 19:15:46

Hmmm. We installed our fishfinder with the toilet ball trick, and it worked fine. Both under the aft quarterbert, and under the vee berth. Just be sure it is pointed straight down, and not on an angle.

Tryu not to work the wax too much or you will get air bubbles in it, air bubbles mean the transdeucer won't work.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 22:10:41

I installed the transducer from my Eagle fish finder using the wax ring method just behind the swing keel and it worked like a charm. I get perfect depth readings. Do see fish echos but everything else about it seems to work.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2010 : 05:46:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Hmmm. We installed our fishfinder with the toilet ball trick, and it worked fine <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ditto

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Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2010 : 08:10:14

I used the toilet wax ring. I mounted it by cutting a sleeve of 6" diameter cardboard tube to contain the wax, then I used a torch to melt the wax ring, dripping it into the sleeve. Once it was thick enough, I pushed the transducer into the hot wax, and continued to melt enough wax to firmly seat the transducer. Then I cut away the carboard tube.
I've towed the trailer all over, and never had a problem with it coming loose or failing to give accurate readings.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2010 : 08:15:02

Dave,
A few things to ponder.
If your boat is a fin keel make sure you are not trying to shoot though the keel. If you create a forum signature with this type of information it is very helpful.
What brand/model are you trying to install? Some manufacturers have more than one transducer available and you may have one not made to shoot though the hull.
I have a 78 fin keel and mine is mounted under the quarter berth as far forward as I can place it. I can see the bottom and fish. It is a Humminbird. The wax toilet bowl ring is a lot less messy to use than the petroleum jelly and can be left as a permanent mount. Mine has been in place four years now. The hull transmits the water temperature very nice as well and I can read water temps within 1 degree of accuracy though it is slower to react to changing water temps.
Make sure you have a good voltage supply powering the unit. Low voltage may reduce the power the transducer needs to shoot through the hull.
If you bought it new you can probably return it if it is having problems.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2010 : 10:11:03

Same here ! My fishfinder/transducer mounted with glob of toilet bowl wax ring has been in place over 4 yrs with no problem. I also have a Humminbird fishfinder. I recall the box/instructions indicating that the transducer could be mounted off of transom or in-hull.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2010 : 17:16:55

Mine using toilet bowl wax works 98% of the time, but sometimes in shallow muddy waters, all I get "- - -" on the display. I've never hit bottom (yet), but it is pretty unnerving not getting a reading.

I've got no idea if it's true, but maybe my wax isn't completely air-bubble free??? Does this happen to anybody else?

Edited by - Voyager on 06/28/2010 17:18:08

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2010 : 17:49:49

More than likely the signal is getting absorbed when it gets in soft, muddy waters. The mud may be absorbing all the energy and not reflecting anything back to the transducer.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2010 : 03:17:00

Bruce,

I sail in the Potomac River and it has muddy waters from time to time. I do not recall ever getting a loss of signal. Perhaps you are getting a somewhat weak signal if a bubble is present. Maybe try and reseat the transducer in the wax and/or move it a few inches to the side of where it is now and see if any difference noted.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2010 : 19:36:49

The instructions I got from a local marine electrician was to first use silicone -- making sure their are no air bubbles -- applying liberally on the spot/area you want to put the transducer, set it in and see if it works. Then, if it does, re-do the job in resin so it is permanent. I did the silicone job and it has worked for the two years since doing it. When the silicone stops working, THEN I will consider a permanent job. I set mine next to the old thru-hulls. Sometimes my system does not work, but usually it does. When it does not it appears that their is air between the hull and water (swells, outboard going high rpm, heeling, etc.

If I had to guess it would be that you have some air -- just a small bubble -- which is preventing the transducer from functioning. I'd try again -- do the work when the boat is in the water so you get a quick response.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2010 : 20:54:47

I'm going to scrape off the old wax, and get a new chunk (that has not been kneaded) and mash it down again.

My "link budget" may be suffering in soft bottoms. If I have a certain amount of loss in the wax, more loss through the hull, but a hard bottom, I seem to have enough 'return signal' to drive the sonar detector.

But, if I am losing a little bit more signal down in the mud, the return power may be insufficient, and below the threshold to drive the sonar receiver.

I can only change the loss in the wax - not through the hull and not in the mud. I guess that would be my best bet.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 03:11:18

Just curious...What fishfinder Model Numbers the two of you (Daves78 and Bruce) utilizing ?

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