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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 06/30/2010 : 07:41:25

Since so many of us have problems with our different outboards I thought it might be a good idea to set up one thread for everyone to post their problems as opposed to a new thread started for each problem..

We can start with mine. I have a 2007 Merc 9.9 4 stroke long shaft pull start that I've had problem after problem with.

It floods real easy. Last night going out it started at the first pull but with choke out it only ran at about 25% power. This is something it's just started doing in the last couple weeks, and not every time. We went out anyways and sailed for a while. As we prepared to come in, I put the motor down and attempted to start it. It would start, put then stall out. After trying this about 10 times, I pushed the button on the side that allows me to start the engine with the throttle up. It started and I let it warm up for about five minutes. I started heading to my slip. As I rounded the corner to go into my dock it failed again. I started it again and gave it a big power burst. It died again. I got it started again, and figuring it would stall again, I did another large power burst. This gave me enough momentum to get to my finger. (Actually a bit too much, I had to do the S turn maneuver to take the heat off and slow the boat down.) Luckily I was able to dock perfectly.

I've got to tell you, I've had nothing but problems with this virtually brand new engine. Do any of these symptoms sound familiar? I have plenty of fuel that's not old and I run it at least once a week. I've learned to barely squeeze the ball as it will flood out quickly and then it won't start period.

It's the worst part about sailing and since the prevailing wind is from the south and getting into my dock makes it where I have to go due south, directly into the wind, I pretty much have to use it as there's really no room to tack, although I've been forced to do so several times. Not fun. I even bought one of those west marine telescoping boat hook paddles which is ridiculous.

Any advice would be welcome.

Peter Powers
1979 TR/FK #1390
~Stephanos~
Bayview Marina,
Lake Ray Hubbard
Dallas, TX

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 08:24:01

This is a good idea, centralizing the topic for easier searches.
That may be air in the fuel line or a jet, float,or dirt problem in the carb. Disconnect the fuel line at the motor and squeeze the bulb to see if the connecter or line is cracked and leaking. If you are mechanically inclined, remove the float bowl and spray carb cleaner through the system and blow it out with compressed air. New sparkplugs never hurt and often solve outboard problems; they at least eliminate one variable. If you have limited mechanical experience, take it to a shop if checking the fuel line and replacing the plugs doesn't resolve it, cleaning the carb will probably cost about $100.

edit:

Clean your fuel tank by dumping most of the gas into a car or lawnmower and add carb cleaner, shake periodically for 1/2 an hour or so, dump the remaining fuel and rinse the tank with a gallon offresh gas and add a fuel filter to the line. All of the major brands of outboards should be extremely reliable, and if you can't fix the problem completely by yourself, having it serviced is money well spent.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 06/30/2010 08:35:44

redeye
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Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 08:42:36

I tried several fuels in my engines, many different 2 strokes. When I added high test in the 1984 6hp Johnson SeaCow it would rev up and die. Start , higher rpms for a short while and then die. I thought hi-test might make it run better, it did not.

Kinda weird.

Currently it runs well when I lean it out after warming up ( rich/lean lever )

I think all things are different with the new fuels. (Ethanol blends)

Edited by - on

PCP777
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Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 09:59:20

Thanks for the ideas. Hope it works tonight, looks like I'm racing my boat..

Edited by - on

aeckhart
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Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 13:30:58

This sounds like a problem I had with my lawn tractor recently. I replaced the fuel filter and now starts and runs fine.

Ort, try a few drops of Sea Foam or other quality fuel additive to clean out the carb, fuel line, etc.

Edited by - aeckhart on 06/30/2010 13:31:40

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 14:52:13

In a healthy engine, the only possible advantage of premium fuel is the additional solvent and suspending additives that they add, and that is primarily for advertising. Higher octane fuel is only more knock, or pre-ignition, resistant, to allow higher compression or more spark advance to generate higher horsepower. The same can be said for low ethanol blends - no benefit and no effect on running in a healthy engine. The only benefit that the outboards we use reap is psychological. Add a stabilizer and possibly the recommended amount of carb cleaner and you might prevent problems - you will definitely feel better.

Edited by - on

djdurrett
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Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 14:52:50

Peter, you going to be around tomorrow? Sounds like adjustment issue. Need to look at the carb in a manual or something to see how the carb is configured. Need to pull the plug and see if it is fouled. You can look at the color and tell if it is rich or lean running.

When mine floods, I open the throttle to WOT, this lets more air in and will clear it out faster if you cycle the motor. If it kicks back, I throttle down and try again. My merc HATES to be choked when warm BTW. I have a 5hp 4 stroke 2004 vintage.

Run some seafoam in your gas and that may help clean it out. You don't have water in your fuel by any chance do you? It might just be an adjustment screw like air/fuel mix or a float sticking or something. I kinda doubt it though. Like the other guy mentioned, allot of times it is just a cleaning problem.

If it is starting and stalling, it sounds like it is having trouble getting fuel. On the underside of the control arm, there should be an idle adjustment. Harden up on that and see what happens.

Edited by - on

djdurrett
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Response Posted - 06/30/2010 : 14:58:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 In a healthy engine, the only possible advantage of premium fuel is the additional solvent and suspending additives that they add, and that is primarily for advertising. Higher octane fuel is only more knock, or pre-ignition, resistant, to allow higher compression or more spark advance to generate higher horsepower. The same can be said for low ethanol blends - no benefit and no effect on running in a healthy engine. The only benefit that the outboards we use reap is psychological. Add a stabilizer and possibly the recommended amount of carb cleaner and you might prevent problems - you will definitely feel better.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree! Ever seen the inside of a carb after running "oxegenated Fuel" in it like what Shell sells? green corroded gunk. Allot of carb parts are brass... not a good recipe for adding a corrosive substance. Only need for higer octane is if you have a high compression engine like a dirtbike or something. Outboards certainly don't or at least little long shaft ones on the back of sailboats.

By the way, I swear by seafoam... check in to it. That and Sta-bil. I have not cleaned the carbs on my 89 evinrude 50 since 2002. It is only used during duck season, sits most of the spring and summer and fires every time.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2010 : 19:21:41

Update on my previous posting in "fuel line advisory" - as it turns out, the diaphragm in the fuel pump (a 2005 Mercury 8hp, 4 stroke) had deteriorated, plus the lining of the tank fuel line was also breaking down. Both conditions related to ETHANOL...add to that the inevitable salt air (read salt water) getting into the fuel, and depositing in and clogging the carb, contributed to poor engine behavior. The pump and carb are now replaced (no rebuild kits available), the fuel line replaced, all fuel is new and STA-BIL added to the tank - should have been doing that all along, not just in the winter...

As a P.S. - I wonder just how old the fuel in the marina gas tanks may be...as most boats use diesel, I question how fresh the marina gas may.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2010 : 20:34:44

I buy all my gas (and that's not an insignificant amout!) from the marina doing the highest volume in the area (and that has the BoatUS discount). To that, based on a trusted mechanic's advice, I add Marine Sta-Bil and Star Tron--two different types of treatments. I figure the incremental cost per gallon is worth the (hopefully) reduced risk of problems... and I fully expect repairs to my Honda 225 would cost a lot more than they would have on my Honda 8.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 07:50:11

New question: How to use "flush muffs" on my Honda 9.9?

I have taken better care of my OB lately by flushing with fresh water each time after sailing in the Bay, which is brackish water that allows growth of algae and barnacles. I've been using a homemade clear vinyl bag that I filled with a hose and put under the lower unit. That has worked fine but is tedious.

So I just bought flush muffs from WM with elongated intake covers that fit over my Honda's elongated intake ports.

The flush muffs fit well over the lower unit. Turning the water on so that there was some splashing out between the flush muffs and the lower unit and then starting the OB, I saw no flow of cooling water after 10 seconds and shut off the motor.

My sailing buddy and I had just been roasted during a fast sail up from Thomas Point light to the Magothy River in the 103 degree weather with 10-15 kt breeze that itself felt like a hot hair dryer cooling us off under the bimini, and it was no time to test equipment at the dock. I'd like to figure this out for my next day on the water.

I've read online that you can run flush muffs with the engine down in the water, but that seems to defeat the purpose of rinsing with fresh water only.

Has anyone used flush muffs on a Honda 9.9 and got it to work?

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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531 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 08:06:17

My local Honda dealer told me to pull the cover off, fit a fresh water hose onto a fitting on the port side of the engine to flush the cooling system, with the engine not running. I haven't tried it yet, I'm going by the dealer today to get the fitting and confirm the instructions. Seems the earmuffs would be a problem with the motor on the boat and the boat in the water.

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 09:32:38

JohnP, Tradewind, this is a very fortuitus thread.

my O/B was acting poorly yesterday and i had to eventually get towed in as it was creating no thrust. i noticed the stream of cooling water exiting the stbd side of my honda 9.9 was flowing less than it normally does so i think it is clogged up. I guess ill go buy one of these fittings and flush her out.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 16:02:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tradewind
 My local Honda dealer told me to pull the cover off, fit a fresh water hose onto a fitting on the port side of the engine to flush the cooling system, with the engine not running.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
John P and Steve,
I used to use the the "ear muffs". It was a bear for me to reach over and put them on. I now use the method the Honda dealer advised Steve. My dealer told me the same thing to shut the engine off and that is exactly how I flush it. I do raise the motor 1 notch from touching the water. Now I dont have to kill myself or my back. I flush after every use. That is why I love my Honda. I do not believe most other manufacturers have that feature, except for my 6.0 Tohatsu which similar process but under the motor.
Steve A
PS John P, I thought I showed you that process the last 2 times you came out sailing with me. I believe we had a discussion re turning on the engine as well during flushing.

Edited by - piseas on 07/26/2010 16:06:19

Voyager
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Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 17:43:10

Steve Tradewind
On the Honda engine, are you talking about the little ball valve on the port side, just above the spark coil? Seems like a 5/8ths or 11/16th inch valve that leaked a little salt water from time to time. I jammed a piece of plastic hose into the fitting which led the salt water out of the bottom, away from any sensitive components.

If that's it, and if there is a fitting to rinse out the system, that would be great info.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 17:44:09

Dave - the marine Sta-Bil really seems to be the thing to add...

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 19:26:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
I used to use the the "ear muffs". It was a bear for me to reach over and put them on. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

...and when you used them did you have to use a lot of water pressure to get the outboard to purge correctly? That's my simple question.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 20:47:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...On the Honda engine, are you talking about the little ball valve on the port side, just above the spark coil? Seems like a 5/8ths or 11/16th inch valve that leaked a little salt water from time to time. I jammed a piece of plastic hose into the fitting which led the salt water out of the bottom, away from any sensitive components.

If that's it, and if there is a fitting to rinse out the system, that would be great info.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Bruce, when I sold Passage to Bill V, I included a brass fitting that screws into the little hole you are perhaps referring to, and has a garden hose connector on the other end. If you didn't get it from him, you should be able to from a Honda dealer. I recall the owner's manual says something about pressure--if not, I'd use enough to get some flow from the "pisser" but no more.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 12:32:32

Found these links for the flush kits, local dealer says around $15.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard%20Engine/2007%20and%20Later/BF8DK0%20LHSA%20OUTBOARD%20ENGINE%2C%20JPN%2C%20VIN%23%20BAAJ-1600001/WATER%20HOSE%20JOINT%20KIT/parts.html

http://marine.honda.com/pdf/accessories/ml.rerap45a.MAC_Flush_Kits.pdf

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 13:10:02

Bruce, Dave's description and the diagram Tradewind posted is correct. The location is under the cover on the port side of the motor. If you are sitting in the cockpit facing the engine, its on the top right side. You do not have to remove the entire cover as its a pain to put it back on. Pull engine 1 click out of water. Tilt the cover up and you will have enough room. Attached your hose to fitting, screw it in and flush- no need to have engine run.

John, P, sorry I misread your question. Yes I did flush with muffs and water came out of all 3 or so exits with great vigor. I dont recall waiting more than a couple of seconds for water to exit. I would then turn on engine like you stated.
But the engine was completely out of the water. As you said, leaving it in would defeat the purpose.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 07/27/2010 13:20:52

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 13:20:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">no need to have engine run<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My Honda manual stated you need to run the engine to a sufficent temperature to open the thermostat or you are only flushing the by-pass loop. Steve, you use your outboard so often flushing is probably not an issue. Most problems occur when an outboard sits for an extended time between uses.

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 14:00:32

If you run your Honda in salt water I have found that the telltale outlet will sometimes get clogged or partially clogged with hardened salt. I'm assuming It dries there after the engine is shut off. This will make you think that the engine is not getting enough water or that you need a new impeller. Try sticking a paper clip in the hole, This will clear it and the stream of water will exit normally. I have to do this a few times a season.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
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Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 14:48:19

I have not yet run my Honda in saltwater, I'll probably launch this Friday and the boat will be kept in the water. The local dealer recommended a flush after each use in saltwater, I'll probably not run it more than 20 or 30 minutes each time I go out unless the wind dies and I need to motor in. I've never used an outboard in saltwater, only on a fresh water lake, so I'm a newbie with the fresh water flushing. I had an inboard in saltwater for 30 years but never had to flush it with fresh water.

Edited by - on

piseas
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Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 15:25:46

Steve, your dealer is correct re flushing after every use. I use my boat almost every weekend. It is kept in a slip. I am in salt water too. Flushing to me is not a big deal. You may not use it much but believe me, there will be a time you will really need it. I take better care of the engine than most other things (and I dont mean to include my wife).
After sailing, I flush out the engine and then clean up the boat by putting everything away like cushions, gps, dump trash, etc. This way I am not waiting for the engine. 10 min later its done. I hose down boat and drive home. Get into a ritual, it works for me. I dont see what the big deal is. I just had a great day of sailing and I am rewarding PiSeas II for the great time she just provided me.
Steve A

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 07/27/2010 : 16:08:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I just had a great day of sailing and I am rewarding PiSeas II for the great time she just provided me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Steve, It's funny that you said that. One of our rituals after putting the boat away and starting to walk down the dock for the car is to turn around and say, "Thank You Boat". Sounds stupid I know but I feel if we don't do it something bad will happen on the next outing. Since we are seasonal, I don't flush the motor during the season but rather flush it with Salt-Away at the end of the year.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 05:33:49

. . . . So do outboard nuisances count? Love my Tohatsu 9.8 but the engine cover will not stay tightly on. Tighten everything up and within a week of riding on the mooring all hardware has loosened up. Would love to retire my "McGuiver" bungee cord . . . am I alone with this phenomenon?

Edited by - on

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