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Another one bites the dust . . .

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:54:30

Our inland lake has claimed yet another life.

Briefly, kids swimming off boat (wearing life vests), boat wasn't anchored, boat floats away from kids, kids panic, father jumps into water (without life vest) to help kids back to boat, boat continues floating away, father drowns, kids survive. Same thing happened a couple-three years ago.

Currents and/or winds can carry an unanchored boat faster than most humans can swim - especially with the all the freeboard of a C25.

Edited by - OJ on 08/04/2010 17:44:32

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 12:39:59

WHY are people just so lax about caution?? Our marina manager is famous for saying that we should beware the water, as it's willing to kill us...

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 12:53:15

It is recommended we wear life jackets too. But I bet the majority of us here do not! That is not to say I bet this group in general have a higher percentage of wearing life jackets than everyone else.
I am shocked to see how many boaters in my bay and the ocean I sail in do not wear anything. I feel like I am the only one who does. Even those coming back from Catalina Island are without. The only time I see someone with a vest, its a child and the do so only because its required. Maybe it should be required to wear life jackets as well, just like we are required to wear seat belts in our cars or helmets on motorcycles. I dont recall the stats but its pretty high the number who have drown whose life's could have been saved by wearing a life jacket.
We say to ourselves, "It will never happen to me." Ya, until it does.

Steve A

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 12:59:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 . . . WHY are people just so lax about caution. . .<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In this case it may be more about naivete - new boat, newer sailor.

The safe boating course taught by our local Coast Guard auxillary never broached this topic . . .

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 13:32:36

<< Beware the Water, me swabbies, as it's Willing to Kill You >>

eeuuu.. that's good... need that engraved in the boat.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1787 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 14:44:24

Route cause -- use the anchor!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 14:56:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Maybe it should be required to wear life jackets as well, just like we are required to wear seat belts in our cars or helmets on motorcycles. I dont recall the stats but its pretty high the number who have drown whose life's could have been saved by wearing a life jacket.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Trying to legislate common sense rarely works.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 16:27:36

I used to keep a pfd within arm's reach, but inflatables are so unobtrusive that they always go on before the lines are dropped. I see very few donned pfds on Lake Erie.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 17:42:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Trying to legislate common sense rarely works.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">. . . and ignorant boaters are a larger voting block than smart ones . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And here in PA when voters repealed the helmet law - hence the term donorcycles.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5396 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 19:47:23

Wear my Mustang every time I go out. All guests and crew must wear PFDs - non-negotiable.

As a kayaker, I know the stats, and taught the course. PFDs were always a MUST on my kayak trips.

In my kayak safety classes, we took the best swimmers, asked them to remove their PFDs and capsized them in the pool. Taught them to re-enter the boat using a paddle float self-rescue.

Only took them one time - found that the PFD gave them one less thing to worry about.

Last summer an experienced sailor without a PFD was on his way from Fairfield CT to Block Island. Got to the Housatonic River, got hit by a big wake or some chop. Fell in the water and they found his boat doing circles. Found his body a week later about 1.5 miles away. What a pointless loss of life.

Edited by - Voyager on 08/04/2010 19:49:18

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 04:11:19

I put on my inflatable for sailing school when we left the dock in Muskegon Lake. When we went out to Lake Michigan the instructor put on his life jacket. Winds were light and the boat was a 36' C&C. The other two students didn't put on life jackets.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:29:19

Don't legislate more nanny state regulations. Besides the regs being annoying you will screw up Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

Edited by - on

tyztoy
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:56:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jbkayaker
 Don't legislate more nanny state regulations. Besides the regs being annoying you will screw up Darwin's Theory of Evolution.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is my favorite line EVER in this forum. Well done!

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 12:20:14

In Boy Scouts, we learned the rescue order was Reach, Throw, Row, Go.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 12:42:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
...and ignorant boaters are a larger voting block than smart ones.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey, what's dis? Who you talkin bout?

I gonna vote you off de island!!!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 13:13:53

To me it isn't about life jackets, it is about intellect. The father earned a Darwin award. I have seen this exact scenario at my lake but it was a mother jumping in from her drifting powerboat to get to the kids being left behind. Every member of this forum would have been successful in this situation with or without a life jacket. We would have motored above the kids and dropped the anchor, then let the boat drift back to the kids. I do not wear a life jacket in a swimming pool or in sailing conditions that render the lake no different than a swimming pool. I do wear a jacket when I feel conditions merit it and demand others to jacket up if I do. If a passenger or skipper were to demand I put one on for their piece of mind I would do it.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 14:16:10

I'm with Dave and Bruce. We don't leave the slip without everyone in a PFD. The auto-inflatables are comfortable even on hot days. People make mistakes and a PFD can be the difference between life or death. If you hit your head going overboard, or are rendered unable to help yourself for some reason, it doesn't matter if the water is rough or not. Plus our lake is not very clear so once you go below the surface you are not going to be found in time. Maybe I'm too cautious on this but, hey, its my boat.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 08/05/2010 14:20:47

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 14:55:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
...The father earned a Darwin award...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Fathers and mothers are ineligible for Darwin awards unless all their offspring die with them. Otherwise there is no natural selection.

We always wear pfds - no exceptions. My father always told me it doesn't matter how well you can swim if you get knocked out on the way down. This is especially hazardous on a sailboat due to the boom and slip/trip hazards all over the place.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 15:29:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And here in PA when voters repealed the helmet law - hence the term donorcycles.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When I was riding, the 5 states that had helmet laws had a higher fatality rate per capita. The 5 states with no helmet law and mandatory motorcycle safety training had the lowest fatality rate per capita. I believe in training.

On a side note, I'm surprised and embarrassed at how insensitive some of the post are with regards to this topic.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 17:16:49

A little off topic, but helmets don't save lives. What helmets do is reduce the likelihood that you will be in a "persistent vegetative state" from brain injury in an extended care facility on the taxpayer's dollar until you die of respiratory complications. Sorry to offend, but years in Emergency and later as an anesthetist at a Level One Trauma Center have made me firmly believe that riding (I used to) without a helmet (I didn't) is stupid and it's irresponsible to put the financial burden for hugh medical costs on society.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 17:47:23

I used to ride too. After going down at 35 mph and rolling/sliding to a stop I spent a week in the hospital with significant road rash (should have been wearing leathers). When I got home I looked at my helmet and I had a gouge all the way through the helmet down to the inner liner where my right cheek bone was. I didn't get a scratch on my face (about the only part of me that wasn't) but if I hadn't been wearing a helmet I would have destroyed my cheek bone and possibly lost an eye if I had survived at all.

Btw, I put on my Mustang PFD as soon as I leave the dock. After tripping a couple of times I thought I probably should have put it on while I was getting the boat prepped.

Edited by - GaryB on 08/05/2010 17:49:13

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 18:51:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...After tripping a couple of times I thought I probably should have put it on while I was getting the boat prepped.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup--a good friend fell off his boat at the dock, sorta got caught between it and the dock, and had a hell of a time finding a way out of the water. (He didn't know about the ladders we had installed in a couple of locations for that purpose.) A surprise like that can create a moment of panic that takes away half your stamina and all of your cognitive resources. Imagine drowning in about 6-1/2' of calm, peaceful water by a dock within site of your condo! Not that I prescribe PFDs on our dock or in our slips, but it's a useful illustration of how dicey things can get out in "real water".

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5396 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 19:42:32

May '09, I was messing with Passage around the dock - cleaning her all up and down and I fell off the Tee-end of the dock into 58 degree water without a PFD.
There were no ladders attached to the docks.
The shore was eighty yards away.
Passage's bow was pointing toward me so I couldn't grab the swim ladder on her stern.
The river's current was pushing me under the boat.

As I mentally reviewed the situation, I realized my options were few.

Luckily, at that moment, my dockmate happened to be passing by and I asked her (all 90 pounds of her) to attach a line to a cleat so I could make a foot loop, in order to climb out of the water.

From then on, I never work around the boat and docks without my Mustang on.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 04:26:32

I'm just stating facts. Helmets don't make you safer. Training does.
Helmets are false security. I rode a custom built Harley chopper with a stroker engine every day in Southern Calif. without so much as a scratch. Must of been a much better driver than most. I finished building the bike when I was 28 yr old so I wasn't a dumb kid either.
Ever heard of counter steering? Most riders have not. You learn it from going to motorcycle safety training.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 05:18:00

Reading this Forum is a really good training method that has probably helped make a few hundred sailors safer (thousand?).

I've learned most of what I know about boating safety here and from the info referred to here (BoatUS info, Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship, etc.)

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 07:10:37

PFDs don't make you "safer" unless you end up in the water. Seatbelts and airbags don't make you "safer" unless you have an accident. Helmets don't make you "safer" unless you have an accident. Training helps prevent accidents, but cannot eliminate them. Each state that retracted its helmet law or changed it to exempt adults saw fatalities from motorcycle accidents go up as a function of miles ridden, typically by numbers like 30+%--I looked it up. And back to PFDs (the real topic here), the only "training" that is likely to work with most people is that which Bruce gave to himself, and he was a water safety instructor prior to that. He is now thoroughly trained. Thankfully, he didn't die during the "course".

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/06/2010 07:12:51

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