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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Ethanol Free Gas

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/09/2010 : 08:45:29

Our newest Marina in the area has a big banner for Marathon Ethanol Free Gas. I reckon this would indicate Ehanol has caused a problem in Marine engines. We have 14 pay at the pump stations... sweet..
.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1778 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 09:03:27

WOW -- nice looking marina. With our old marinas I have often wondered what is worse the Ethanol or whatever sludge is in the tank from past storms! But I hope your new marina starts a national trend for marinas everywhere!

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 09:18:54

24 hr self serve pumpout, seawall, boat rental, store...

And there is a Tiki Bar on the right!
.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 13:47:18

I'll be there is 6 hours!!

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 14:11:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 I'll be there is 6 hours!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...up the Chattahoochee? I think I saw a movie about that trip--looked a little dicey...

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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 15:39:23

Our marina has a men's room and a ladies room. I think they clean them on alternate months. Next month is our turn. I hope.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2010 : 08:08:10

I was wondering about whether ethanol-free gas is legal and available as a motor fuel in all states? Apparently, its ok in the great state of Georgia (I lived there in the 80s). Aviation gas is available in many states without ethanol, but that's pretty specialized.

With all the problems that small engines (outboards, lawn equipment, etc) experience with ethanol-based gas, don't you think some marine-fuel stations would start to sell it without ethanol at say a 25% premium just to get the business (and profit) if it were not state regulated?

Don't know the rules, but wouldn't it be great if ethanol-free gas were generally available for marine use?

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2010 : 10:31:57

Think of the logistical issues... a 25% premium might be optimistic.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2010 : 12:48:45

Oxygenated fuels, like the low ethanol that we all buy, are not a problem for any engine made in the last twenty years and my 1951 two stroke ran fine on it. It can be a problem for several kinds of fuel tanks, and the max 90 day shelf life, due primarily to water absorption, is a problem and can wreak havoc on any engine if the fuel separates. I use two 3 gal tanks and only fill the empty one when the active tank is at 3/4 or I'm planning a long trip. Use a stabilizer if you want and turn over you fuel and your outboard won't care. There was an uproar when tetraethyl lead was taken out of fuel and most engine failures were blamed on it even though there was no surge in the number of burned valves or holed pistons.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2010 : 19:32:49

My classic 2 stroke British Seagull engine runs fine on today's gas. It starts on one pull. Trouble is, my beautiful steel gas tank turned to rust from the inside out one day, and I really miss the classic look. I found a plastic tank that is similar, but its no match for the original.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 04:36:43

Another major marina in the area has gas with a stabilizer already in the gas. One boater I spoke with said his fuel filter has a build up of something in it and he has to clean out the filter daily when he uses it.

I'm thrilled to see restaurants we can drive up to. At the beach it had gotten to the point they discouraged boaters driving up to restaurants as they were so inept at docking. I've see one instance myself where the boat was so big, and the captn so bad he damaged the dock in calm weather.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 05:07:35

<< WOW -- nice looking marina. >>

I had to take a picture it looked so funny to me. I think it is an older renovated marina. All I could think of was the facade was a movie set, or do you see mickey and goofy?. I'm thinking just behind that aluminum siding is a 50 year old wooden building. I don't think the palms are gonna need a lot of water.

The seawall kinda gives it away.

I'm thinkin I'll need my pirates hat, feather, and hook when I drop in.

Ahrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............

The Lighthouse is probably two blondes playin with an led ....somebody stop me.. and the posts give it a western motif.

See what happens when you don't budget for an architect.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 06:53:20

Love this stuff
[url="http://www.parkmarine.com/park/buy_a_boat"]from the other side[/url]

Paul

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 09:03:00

That is funny...I'm crying... Just think, that is targeted for my demographic. NOT>> Boaters just like me!

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jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2010 : 11:18:38

10% ethanol is a problem for fuel lines more than about ten years old. On both my 1989 Sea Doo (25 feet of fuel line) and my 1999 Nissan outboard ethanol contaminated gas destroyed the inside of rubber fuel lines. That let little particles into the carburetor to clog everything. First symptom is that the engine will only run with the Choke On.

Check your flexible fuel lines. If they are ten years or older OR you don't find labeling to the effect that they can tolerate ethanol then you better scrupulously avoid it. I've been told by a good professional mechanic that using Sta-Bil RED label will help prevent ethanol damage. Ethanol also attracts water which can stop an engine cold.

You can test for the presence of ethanol in gas as follows:
1) Fill a test tube about 15% with water and precisely mark the level.
2) Add the suspect gasoline to fill the remaining space.
3) Shake the tube for a minute to mix the water and gas.
4) Let the tube stand until the water and gas separate.
5) If the boundary between water and gas has moved up then the gas contained alcohol which was absorbed by the water.

I fly an airplane that can use premium auto gas IF it doesn't contain ethanol. So I do this test when I have a new source for fuel.

Edited by - jbkayaker on 07/13/2010 11:26:26

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2010 : 11:50:47

Thank you, thank you thank you...

This helps more than you can know. And I'll bet it's nice to know your airplane engine will not start skipping!

I'm always amazed the number of times info from aviation helps me.

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kavaliauskas
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 07:28:36

You can also find ethanol free marinas with real-time fuel prices on MarineFuel com. They have the most comprehensive [URL="http://marinefuel.com/marinas-directory/"]marina directory[/URL] in the United States and Caribbean.

Edited by - kavaliauskas on 10/19/2010 07:29:05

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 16:11:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kavaliauskas
 You can also find ethanol free marinas with real-time fuel prices on MarineFuel com. They have the most comprehensive [URL="http://marinefuel.com/marinas-directory/"]marina directory[/URL] in the United States and Caribbean.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Instead of telling me prices in my area, they asked me for them. If I knew, I wouldn't be trying to find them here. Maybe some day.......

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 16:46:20

And E15 is just a very short way away. Heard on the news that it shouldn't bother cars built after 2006. Honda outboard is a 97, Mazda P-up 06 and Subaru is a 2004. I guess Im screwed.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 17:39:02

E-15 is in restricted approval for cars only with warnings regarding years of manufacture. Distribution will be limited, and it won't replace E-10, just supplement it if, like E-85, stations choose to offer it.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2010 : 15:20:07

Until some brilliant politician with $100M in corn futures decides to do the "green thing" disingenuously!

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2010 : 20:22:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Until some brilliant politician with $100M in corn futures decides to do the "green thing" disingenuously!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

...OR some financial jeenius decides that if everyone had to buy a new car it would really boost the auto sector...

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Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2010 : 05:20:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Until some brilliant politician with $100M in corn futures decides to do the "green thing" disingenuously!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

...OR some financial jeenius decides that if everyone had to buy a new car it would really boost the auto sector...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
...............OR some jerk at the EPA figured that if 10% Ethanol didn't do anything to end Global Warming, 15% would definitely save the world. (Of course our great-great-grandchilderen won't have anything to eat by then but field corn and Pop Tarts but the weather will be good.)

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2010 : 10:06:57

As for the politics, I think the ethanol thing has more to do with subsidizing farms (more demand for corn), subsidizing trucking (because it can't be sent through pipelines), improving environment (reducing MTBE in aquifers) and reducing oil imports than global warming. Any analysis of the total energy consumption from synthesizing, purifying and shipping ethanol (plus its low BTU value) shows it makes global warming worse. But that doesn't stop the politicians from making up benefits. But I have mixed feelings because there are some real benefits as well as some negatives.

However IIRC (can't verify right now) it is mandated by federal environmental legislation that affects only urban and/or high pollution areas, plus a few states that have completely banned et-free gas. So it you're near a city you need to get out to a more rural area by car or boat.

Those of us with portable tanks can use this to find a land-based gas station:

http://pure-gas.org/

Here in Philly you need to drive out toward Lancaster or Allentown to get it.

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