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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Is a 25 Catalina Right for Me & Lake Pontchartrai?

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downtowndave78
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/18/2010 : 17:57:42

Hello everyone! My wife and I are currently in the market for a sailboat, and because we are new to the community I was hoping you might be able to answer some questions for me regarding the Catalina 25. I have only been out on a sailboat 6 or 7 times in my life, but it has been something I have wanted to pursue for the many years. There is currently a Catalina 25,1985 swing keel (Standard Rig) that I am interested in purchasing, so I have been doing a lot of research regarding this boat but I still have some questions.

We will have a slip, and its primary use will be day sailing with the occasional over-nighter.
We will be sailing in Lake Pontchartrain, north of New Orleans, and it is a very big and shallow lake which often creates choppy conditions. The lake is also brackish, and I will be on the gulf side with a higher concentration of salinity.

1) Is this a good starter boat for these conditions?

2) Will I have issues with the cast iron keel and the salty water?

3) I am not interested in a trailerable boat, so should I stay away from the swing keel and the additional maintenance?

4) How many people (adults) can comfortably sail in a 25?

5) Can I sail the Gulf of Mexico, say from NOLA to Pensacola, in this boat?

I probably wouldn't not be considering a swing keel, but judging from the pictures the boat seems to be in excellent condition, perfectly maintained, very affordable, and an option to trailer and unground yourself seems nice.

Thanks for any suggestions and hopefully my next blog will be from the lake.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2010 : 18:36:38

1) Yes.

2) Yes, but none that simple routine maintenance can't resolve. There are a lot of iron keels in the ocean.

3) Maybe. How handy are you? The maintenance that must be done isn't reported to be difficult but it does require some specific steps and a lot of weight. You said Pontchartrain is shallow. That's a good reason to have a swinger but, the draw of wing keel would probably also be a good choice. And, they're lead. No maintenance other than the occasional bottom paint.

4) I had 4 adults and a kid on my 250 yesterday quite comfortably. The C25 cockpit is smaller but should accomodate that many and maybe a couple more on calmer days if htey're REAL good friends.

5) I'll defer to those with more local knowledge but, you might want a bit more experience than you have now along with knowledge of tides and currents.

Don't buy a boat based on pictures ore general appearance. That's particularly true of older boats. The newest C25 is 20 years old. It's also true of boats that have seen recent hurricanes. Great cosmetics can cover a multitude of sins. The best $400 (or so) you'll ever spend a boat purchase will be for a professional survey conducted BEFORE you sign the check. It will help you make an informed decision and provide a list of repairs that may be required in their order of importance.

Don't fall in love with a boat before you've had it surveyed and are reasonably sure it's the boat for you.

Welcome to the forum. You'll find a lot of great information and friendly folks here. Browse the forum. There are a lot of threads discussing the various models and their pros and cons.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/18/2010 18:38:05

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5361 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2010 : 19:00:26

John
Welcome to the forum.

I'll second the Survey - worth every dime - even if the surveyor doesn't find anything wrong with the boat, you can't beat the peace of mind you'd get from it. And if you follow him/her around, you can learn about all the nooks and crannies of the boat.

I would suggest that no more than three adults ride in the cockpit as the skipper needs to be able to move around the cockpit upobstructed under critical conditions.

I have had occasions when an extra guest has seated themself on up on the bow.

The Lake - what are the average depths? 3-6 feet or 5-9 feet? I ask because you really can't sail in 3-6 foot depths as the swing keel would have to be up.

The chop - are you talking about 2 ft short wavelength waves? or 3+ foot breakers? Since it is a very large lake, there can be a great deal of "fetch" with certain wind directions.

Edited by - Voyager on 07/18/2010 19:11:52

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2010 : 19:30:24

5 adults on a C-25, not all in the cockpit, is at my comfort limit, and I suppose 6 could be managed in really good conditions, 4 is much better. Just don't party with 15

Edited by - Dave5041 on 07/18/2010 19:32:04

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2010 : 20:24:59

I can't speak to your lake or your conditions, but I can speak to mine in teh hopes that it helps you in your decision.

I had never owned a boat beofre buying our C-25. I had canoes, but they are in an entirely different league. In any case, I bought Iris as my first boat after spending a year crewing for a racer on a C-27. As a first boat I have found iris (our boat) to be a very forgiving teacher, and a great sailboat.

I stayed away from teh swing keels, bes=cause of maintenance concerns, but I am also on a lrage, fairly shallow lake - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Simcoe - with strange wind patterns, etc. We have th eshort rig which is supposed to be for windy areas, btut it has performed well for us.

we race regularly both to build skills, and to get more use out of the boat. The C-25 can absolutely sail to its numbers, adn do well.

We have sailed with between 1 and 6 Adults on the boat. 6 is too many. 5 works OK as long as someone is comfortable riding the rail or cabintop.

The c-25 has a bunch of minor design flaws, but nothing that is so bad it is a deal breaker. The Ice box comes to mind, and there are others. You will get good value in teh boat, but you won't make money when its toime to sell.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 10:27:31

The NOAA chart [url="http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/11369.shtml"]11369 [/url] shows that the whole lake is over 8 feet deep except for close to the shoreline in spots. Most areas are between 12 and 16 feet deep. Any of the Catalina 25 boat designs could be sailed safely there with no danger of running aground.

Happy sailing!!!

p.s., Take the advice about a professional boat survey!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 10:33:17

Looks like the causeway divides the lake into 2 boating areas. There are two bridges with vertical clearances of 42 ft and 50 ft.

I bet there's traffic! Anybody know about the boating culture on that lake?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 10:40:26

1. Definitely a good starter boat.
2. Not if you keep it painted
3. The swing keel is a good boat, the maintenance is fairly simple. Replacing the cable in my opinion is fairly easy.
Comfort is about 4 maybe five adults. 6 or 7 is doable if they are absolutely all sailors and know how to stay out of the cockpit and still be safe. Sleeps 4 or 5 comfortably.
The boat can handle that provided the weather is okay. I don't know if you are ready yet without more experience.

A surveyor with sailboat experience is a plus...

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 12:37:09

All good advice, and I'd like to emphasize getting a survey. It will be $$ well spent.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 13:19:54

Re the survey. Follow him/her around with a notebook and take copious notes. Also, carry a permanent marker and actually write on various items as the surveyor explains what they are.

Edited by - on

downtowndave78
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 15:38:55

Thanks for all of the advice everyone.

I definitely understand what you are saying John about the difference between pictures and the actual boat. My only problem is that the boat is 6 hours away, so I wanted to get some advice based on my research to see if it is even worth the drive. It sounds like it is.

The owner has also told me recently that the lights on the mast are not working, the cast iron keel does have a couple rust spots showing through in spots, it needs a bottom job, the pump on the toilet needs to be rebuilt, and he is unsure if the water system is functional.

I know that these aren't major issues, but fixing them will begin putting me over budget.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 16:44:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by At Ease
 Re the survey. Follow him/her around with a notebook and take copious notes. Also, carry a permanent marker and actually write on various items as the surveyor explains what they are.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If somebody were to write on my boat with a permanent marker BEFORE he wrote the check, we'd have some very unpleasant words.

Edited by - on

downtowndave78
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 19:09:43

What are you getting at with that last comment?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 19:16:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by downtowndave78
 What are you getting at with that last comment?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That you shouldn't write on someones boat with permanent marker if that someone isn't you.....At least that is how I read JOhn's comment

Generally speaking, you get the survey prior to purchase. That way you can A. Walk away from a bad buy, B. Negotiate a better price after deducting all the repairs (at full market price) the surveyor notes or C. realize that you are truly getting a good deal.

I you were to walk around with the surveyor and mark stuff with permanent marker when in fact you don't own the boat. I'd be kicking you in the pants too.

There are many who have to get a survey after purchase, usually for insurance purposes but in the opinion of most that is too late. You want it before you write the check.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 20:14:57

Yup--if you have to pay for a survey for insurance, you might as well get the benefit of having it before the final closing.

Regarding rust on the keel, whether a swinger or a pre-'83 fin (also cast iron), that's just a "feature" of that boat, especially in salt water. It won't affect sailing (unless you're into racing to the point that you demand a flawlessly smooth bottom). There's 1500 lbs. of cast iron there--a few ounces flaking off here and there are trivial. Pits can be treated with "rust reformer" and faired with Marine Tex...

The cable and its attachment are the important corrosion issues.

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 15:35:25

I sailed on Lake Pontchartrain for about 7 years, 1981-1989, so I am pretty much out of date, still, I doubt that the lake itself has changed all that much. As noted it averages 12-14 feet in depth in most parts. Out on the east end, around the Rigolets it can get really shallow, but the channels are well marked. The main concern with the depth is what happens when it blows up. That area is essentaly a light air area and you will appreciate a bimini and a big drifter or something. But when it blows up--one guy once said it was like taking a saucer full of water and shaking it. The waves and chop seem to come from all directions at once, with no rhythm or pattern.,although there probably is one, it just doesn't seem like it. Those are good days to stay at home. I had two boats on the lake, a South Coast 23 which was a full keeled Carl Alberg designed boat which drew 3 feet and a Cape Dory 30, another Alberg design) which drew about 4 1/2. No problems with either of them. I really think that a C25 would be a fine boat for the lake. I personally like a full keeled boat and now have a C25 Fin. Somebody mnre qualified than I could tell you more about a swinger in hurricane country. I sense from your posting that you are going to be in the Slldell area. Is that so? If so, you are in easy reach of the near gulf coast for a three day weekend. I was in the Municipal Yacht Harbor in New Orleans and the coast really needs more time from there. The other big problem with ssiling in the NOLA area is that there is no place to go. It is 25 miles across the lake, so just going over for lunch or something is pretty much out of the question. All considered, if ;you are in the Slidell area, I think a swinger might be a better choice for getting up into the canals and up close to the beaches on the little island out on the gulf coast. Sorry about the length of this post, but it was fun to write.

Edited by - on

downtowndave78
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 17:05:51

I am going to be mooring (correct use of lingo?) my future vessel in Southern Harbor located in New Orleans east, so while I am a ways from the pass to Lake Borgne and the Rigolets I am a little closer than Municipal and Orleans Harbors. It is actually the only available location at this time. It is disappointing to hear that the places to sail or limited. I was hoping to find some adventure, but a barrier island isn't that bad I guess. The truth is that I will be spending a while just learning how to sail, so the offshore journeys can wait.

Thanks again for all of the help from everyone.

Edited by - on

downtowndave78
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 17:08:51

Oh, and with all the shallows in the east it sounds like the swing keel would be a good fit and allow me to explore more places.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 18:32:32

Dave, your last 2 posts read like you have your mind made up and are asking us to just confirm th edecision.

Let us know how the boat looks at the dock.

Edited by - on

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