Association Forum - Isulating Ice Box

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Isulating Ice Box

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

mytime25
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
50 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/02/2010 : 10:59:31

Hey everyone,

I'm thinking of using spray foam to increase the insulation factor on our ice box, any ideas on this??
Thanks

Devin
"My Time"
'77 C-25 SR/SK #59
Beaverton,Oregon

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 14:32:32

It may be easier to use a combination of spray foam and sheet insulation. I think the major drawback you will have is getting the foam to stick initially on the vertical and underside faces of the icebox. On the other hand, its about the only way to get insulation between the outside of the box and the inside of the hull or the outside of the box and the inside of the dumpster bulkhead. I used 4" urethane to insulate everything I could get at which turned out to be two sides and the bottom. I think it helps keep the box a lot cooler. When I got the boat, there was some 1 1/2" bead board falling off. The biggest challenge is physically getting yourself in the space to do the work. I suppose its possible to spray in too much foam and cause the counter top to lift up as the foam expands. Or maybe oil can in the sides of the ice box itself so be careful with how much you spray in. I would say that using those spray cans available everywhere will not work. You will need something a bit more "professional" to put out enough foam.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 14:33:00

This is on my todo list - someday.

I used a two-part foam spray insulation in a house addition. Extremely effective, high insulation value and forms around everything - very easy to trim off the excess also. Was so pleased that I purchased a two-tank throw-away kit for insulating a small project.

I think this is the kit version I used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWmHXoGaPo4&feature=related

Challenge is making a mold around the icebox to spray the insulation into.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 18:53:23

We used construction blue styrofoam and a tube of basic silicone adhesive to cover the port, forward and bottom of the cooler. It has made the cooler 'keep cooler' longer.

Edited by - on

mytime25
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 18:01:13

I was down on the boat today and I had a thought. I am wanting to replace the counter top and not knowing how it is attached, but if I remove it I might have better access to insulate it. Just a thought

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 11:56:57

There are many threads in the archives on this issue. Many of us feel that the C25 "icebox" is pretty much a joke, and use it for dry storage instead. I use a good portable ice chest: it's a lot easier to fill and to drain, it keeps food cooler longer, it's bigger, and saves a lot of work.

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 16:30:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Even Chance
 There are many threads in the archives on this issue. Many of us feel that the C25 "icebox" is pretty much a joke, and use it for dry storage instead. I use a good portable ice chest: it's a lot easier to fill and to drain, it keeps food cooler longer, it's bigger, and saves a lot of work.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You know I really disagree with this sort of thinking. (nothing personal Even Chance) People on this forum are always talking about ripping out this water tank or claiming that such and such a built in facility are useless. I find the icebox very useful. I'm always surprised by the fact that I drag onto the dock this big roll around ice chest and all the stuff inside fits into this ice box including ice. And since re-insulating it, it keeps food cool at least as long as the roll around ice chest.
I would go on to recommend that if your box is missing the half shelf (there is a lip all around the box around a half way up)you should fabricate yourself one out of charcoal grill grate wire. It helps a lot in keeping the stuff organized and accessible.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 17:53:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 [quote]Originally posted by Even Chance
 . . . And since re-insulating it, it keeps food cool at least as long as the roll around ice chest . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And, there are those of us who simply enjoy puttering around on our boats - making little creature comfort improvements here and there . . .

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 03:42:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> was down on the boat today and I had a thought. I am wanting to replace the counter top and not knowing how it is attached, but if I remove it I might have better access to insulate it. Just a thought<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Unless you drill holes through the top along side the cooler box and spray the foam from the top. That might work.

You first have to remove the aft bulkhead as it sits down onto the counter top. Then you have to remove the sink bowl because the clamps hold the counter top down to the liner. There are a few screws along the back bulkhead that need to come out. The faucet needs to come out also.
I took mine out and made new counter tops and a new back wall with Formica and plywood. I used the new high def laminate and it really looks nice.
I'll have to look into adding foam while the counter tops are still out. I would also like to use it as designed. I connected the drain also.

Edited by - Happy D on 08/05/2010 04:03:23

Trust Me
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 04:51:41

one simple inexpensive way to extend ice life is to buy a foil "space blanket" from the local big box store. Used as an emergency blanket it can be refolded to fit inside the ice box under the lid. It does require you to lift an edge of the blanket to access the items but helps keep the ice longer. After enough use throw it away and buy another.
s/v Trust Me in the Apostle Islands, WI

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 06:02:12

One of the problems is that the outside wall of the ice box is tight against the hull. Not much room for insulation there. Adding the blanket is a good solution.

Edited by - on

mytime25
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 08:09:19

Wow!Thank you guys for this info. Happy D, I am impressed with all the work you are doing to your boat. Thank you for the photo, I now see what I'm working with. A picture is worth a thousand words

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 08:28:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A picture is worth a thousand words<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sometimes it only worth 5 words, "What am I looking at?"

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 10:51:52

No blood, no foul, Steve. But I didn't say it was useless. I just suggested a different use.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 19:56:38

Has anyone tried using dry ice in the ice box? Does it last any longer than regular ice?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5430 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 20:22:44

While the adage "no pain, no gain" holds true in this case, and while many who have invested their considerable time and skill in restoring the icebox have produced impressive results, I've chosen to plug the drain and disconnect the rusty check valve from the galley through-hull fitting (don't need the risk of a failure there) and now use it to store pots, pans & cookware.
My Igloo 3.5 day Max-Cold 36 cooler is small but large enough for a three day trip and fits neatly under the dinette table.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 04:11:12

I think becasue dry ice gives off CO2, it's not recommended on a boat.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 13:37:17

Dry ice vaporizing doesn't absorb as much heat as ice melting. It will freeze anything touching it - I froze a cooler to the floor once by letting it sit too long. It is great for keeping frozen things frozen, but ice is better for keeping cold things cold. The heavy CO2 vapor is worth keeping in mind when you use it in a closed space.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2010 : 18:32:45

I thought about cutting out the ice box completely and putting a shelf in that I could mount a 5 day cooler. I wanted install it so that the lid was above the counter top. I couldn't find anything that would work.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 05:16:04

PO sprayed ordinary insulation foam around the icebox and added 50W peltier cooler to it.
It's not the best, drains a battery but I think the main issue in my setup is the icebox hatch.
I would like to ask you, what kind of insulation do you have between the icebox and the hatch? What is the original solution?
In the icebox there is some groove but the wood desk above is slightly offset.
More photos over weekend.

Thanks

Edited by - Tomas Kruska on 07/27/2012 05:21:22

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 06:13:50

Gave up on the ice box, now use it to store dry food. Got one of these, they are expensive, but you never have to chase down ice after you have been out a few days.

Engel MT35 AC/DC fridge/freezer

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 06:46:40

Davy, the specs on the Engel fridge look good. Do you run it 24 hrs, or do you run it awhile and turn it off awhile? Do you have one battery for the fridge and one for other needs? How much "on" time can you get with one battery? Are your batteries 12v wet cells?

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 06:48:17

I've been thinking about separate fridge, but where do you store it?
I have inboard motor and we are now 4 (two adults and two kids) - not much space left.

Maybe cut out the ice chest and mount this kind of fridge there.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 07:53:45

The specs page says 1-2 amps per hour:
http://www.engel-usa.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx.tpl&product_id=19&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=59&vmcchk=1&Itemid=59

A group 24 battery (C-25's often have 2) is good for about 80 amp hours typically, or 60 amp hours if you draw down to 80%.

A 20w solar panel (what is on my boat) might be able to recharge your battery by about 6-8 amp hours per day in the summer in direct sun.

Let's assume that the MT35 requires 1.5 amps/hour (in the middle of the specs, so 36 hours per day), you can dedicate on Group 24 battery to it, and your charger is only used to charge that battery.

Day 1: 60 (starting) + 6 (solar) - 36 (fridge) = 30 amp hours hours left
Day 2: 30 (starting) + 6 (solar) - 36 (fridge) = 0 amp hours left

Without shore power (if you can find shore power then you can find bagged ice) it looks like you could run this for 2 days.

If you got a 100w solar panel (30 amp charge per day) then you could run the fridge nearly forever with good sunlight. The problem is that a 100w panel is quite large for our boats.

I'm torn between trying to make my cooler better and just using it for dry storage. We get about 3 solid days out of two bags of ice in it.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 08:28:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Davy, the specs on the Engel fridge look good. Do you run it 24 hrs, or do you run it awhile and turn it off awhile? Do you have one battery for the fridge and one for other needs? How much "on" time can you get with one battery? Are your batteries 12v wet cells?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The fridge is "on" 24 hours a day, however, it only "runs" for about 3-5 minutes every 20 minutes or so. I have two group 27 batteries in parallel, however, I also have a 80 watt solar panel.

This is my rig for extended trips. One running as a freezer, one as a fridge:

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2012 : 10:20:13

Davy:

How long can you go without shore power on that configuration (two Edsen fridges and your 80w panel)? Florida gets a lot more sun than Washington State (but the fridges also need to work harder), are your batteries back up near full by the end of a sunny day with the fridges running? Could you go indefinitely, a week, or only a couple of days with your setup without shore power?

I'm asking because real world experiences are always more valuable than estimates (like the one that I provided).

I'm still making the assumption/argument that shore power and ice are approximately the same cost and availability. That seems to be the case here in the Puget Sound.

alex

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.