Association Forum - Rudder ALMOST lost 2 miles from the Dock

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Rudder ALMOST lost 2 miles from the Dock

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
5416 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/13/2010 : 20:19:03

This story may not be as spellbinding as Michael's story about losing his rudder way out deep, but it put a shockwave into me today.

Once again, the winds were forecast for 5-10, and in fact the LI Sound was a washing machine. No problem there, I took that in stride.

But as I passed the mouth of the river today on my way back in, with an incoming wind opposing an outgoing current, the chop was horrendous. Not a real problem, until I noticed there was a fair amount of play in the stick.

In the middle of all the excitement, I noticed that the nylock nut that holds my tiller handle onto the rudder was missing, and the bolt was resting in place with only a very small amount of friction -it too looked like it was making its way shortly to the bottom of the sea.

I happened to have a roll of tape handy at that very moment, so I ran about ten wraps around the end of the bolt. It held enough to get me back to the dock.

It's amazing that a 50 cent part can really ruin your day if you're not alert and vigilant. Good thing I got a bit of warning.

So what do you all use to keep the tiller firmly connected all season long, but so you can remove it come lay-up time? Lock washers, locking nuts (counter-rotated) or lock-tite?

Really makes you wonder, what else is sitting there undoing itself while we blithely sail on?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2010 : 20:37:44

I use a wing nut and a lock washer on mine. Give it a quick twist every so often.

Glad things worked out OK for you!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2010 : 20:55:31

Good catch, Bruce, and good save!

I'd start by replacing the nylock nut--they can lose their grip, and who knows how old it is... Unless you've replaced it, it's older than the rudder (that I bought) and probably as old as the boat. That nut is vulnerable to loosening because the tiller goes up and down with the bolt potentially binding inside the rudder head. I've noticed it loosening a little, and checked and tightened it a few times during the season.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2010 : 05:30:32

I rather use a self locking nut that is not nylon. They make them in a dozen configurations. The ones I prefer have the nut slightly deformed in some way.
All locking style nuts need to be replaced once in a while.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2010 : 05:58:55

I also use a wing nut and lock washer, on both boats. As Gary said, it's easy to give it a turn periodically.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2010 : 07:29:20

I used a wing nut and lock washer, and gave it a twist occasionally, like the others, but I also kept an extra set in a galley drawer, just in case.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2010 : 08:11:55

Wing nut & washer as well. I also use an over length bolt so even if the nut works loose, you've still got a chance to save it when you notice the connection getting loose.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2010 : 08:32:45

Like Steve and David mentioned I also use a longer bolt and keep an extra set on board.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2010 : 19:52:34

nylock nut...

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2010 : 06:29:55

Although I use a wing nut & lock washer the nylock nut is a great solution, I have a lot of faith in them, but will wear with time as any other piece of hardware. I can't remember who recently talked about doing an aircraft like "walkaround" but I think that is the ultimate solution. It's good to peek at the stays and shrouds, the tiller and the motor connection to the boat. Take a look at the bilge and the thru hulls every so often! Have you checked your anchor and it's various connections lately? Might need it at a moment's notice!!

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2010 : 08:57:08

Thanks to all on the suggestions. Here's what I think happened.

In the spring, I removed and repolyuerthaned the tiller handle. When I replaced it, I bought a new, longer bolt, several SS pan or fender washers, and cut out some polyethelene washers from coffee can lids to provide a tight, but movable mounting.

I slipped the polyethelene washers between the rudder and the tiller brackets, put the metal washers on the outside and slid the bolt through. I cannot recall whether I used the old nylock nut, or got a new one.... (hmmm C.R.S. is apparently setting in). I thought the nylock nut would hold, so I did not use a lock-washer. Big mistake.

Apparently, over time, the nut backed itself off, and recent heavy winds and seas aggravated the situation. Luckily, it held on as long as it did to get me through the washing machine at the mouth of the river. When I returned to the dock, I rustled around my box of nuts, bolts and screws and I found a huge WINGNUT that fit perfectly.

I thought, 'this should hold for a while until I get to the store to buy another nylock nut'. But, after reading all the notes on wingnuts, I think I might go ahead and get the right sized lock-washer and leave it set up that way.

Edit: since then, I have started the "walkaround" and found a loose engine mount thumbscrew and I am replacing the shackles and chain on the anchor. I redid the cotter pins and replaced a turnbuckle on my shrouds this spring, and so far, they seem fine. This fall, I plan on checking the top end of the shrouds and mast top fittings.

Edited by - Voyager on 08/15/2010 09:02:22

Frank Law
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2010 : 19:59:07

My tiller is BOLTED to the rudder with two nuts.. It was that way when I got the boat and it works for me..! Note I remove / install the combination rudder/tiller every time I take the boat out. It only take 5 minutes or less each way . I store it below.. "About Time" swings on a mooring in shallow tidal water (3-5 ft,) . I almost lost a rudder on our Cat 22 when it came loose and floated away , but luckily we found it days later along a bank among some low hanging tree branches .I soon pinned the the pintle with a spring type clip

Frank Law
"ABOUT TIME"
3519 1983 sr swk

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2010 : 20:24:51

Frank, If I had to worry about the rudder scraping bottom, I'd do the same thing.

Today, I showed up at the boat with a spare bolt, washers, a lock washer and a wing nut as a spare. I also got a few nylocks as well. This way, when the tiller comes off again, I will be able to replace the whole kit and caboodle.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2010 : 21:00:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...when the tiller comes off again,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3477 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2010 : 06:57:38

From the Catalina 25 tech tips.

Tiller - Aircraft S.S. quick release pins allow easy removal of tiller to free up cockpit space while at a calm anchorage. I still need to put a lanyard from the tiller to the pin so I won't drop it

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2010 : 17:43:19

Dave,
Eventually every fastener becomes loose, and since it's hanging over the water, you lose parts.
Last week, the nylock nut & washers had dropped off into the water, and the bolt was halfway out of the tiller handle when I spotted it.
That's why I bought a spare one.

Ray,
I've got an aircraft S.S. quick release pin in the Honda engine, which adjusts the tilt. I never touch that.
I plan to keep on using a wingnut with a lock washer. I don't need to remove the tiller while at anchor since I generally tie it up to the backstay.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2010 : 20:36:18

Pearl had a quick release aircraft pin at the gooseneck when I got her, but when it came out in brisk winds and lumpy seas I changed to nut, lock washer, machine screw and safety wire. Not as much fun as losing a rudder, but still something I suggest you avoid. I actually safety wire just about every bolt pin and shackle when I rig. It does make commissioning and decommissioning tedious between Lake Erie and Florida, but it make me more confident that things won't be coming apart..

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2010 : 04:46:23

Mine just has a wing nut, but I think the best solution would be a slightly longer bolt with a hole drilled through so you could add a cotter pin or ring to keep the nut from working off. Not sure how easy to make a hole tho, or if you can buy one.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2010 : 21:18:42

Drillpress and good steel drill bit. File flat spot into end threads and clamp bolt for drilling.

Edited by - on

JAB
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 14:29:24

They're called "drilled shank" bolts, and some specialty hardware stores carry them.

On my C-25, the PO put one through the tiller pivot and fastened it with a wing nut, safetied by a cotter ring. Works great!

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 14:42:32

Joe -
Definitely simple, and works for me!

Edited by - Voyager on 08/25/2010 14:43:35

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.