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O.T.: Catalina 400, Mark II

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Voyager
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Initially Posted - 08/15/2010 : 16:52:57

One of my dockmates, currently with a 38 foot Beneteau, is well along in his decision to purchase a new Catalina 400 from a dealer in Annapolis. The boat is currently in production at the factory in the Tampa area.

He and his wife said they're planning to use the boat as their summer retirement home away from home, sailing and cruising around the east coast from May to October.

They've looked at the 42 Catalina, and a few other types and brands in that size range, but say they love the spaciousness, design and engineering of this Catalina above all the other boats they've seen.

I suggested that the Newport show is only a month away on the 18th of Sept, and the Annapolis show is a few weeks later.

For first hand experience with this particular boat, is there someone who may be a former 25 owner on this forum who currently has this boat? Or, within the Mainsheet community and forums, a group of people with experience with the boat?

I suggested they check with the Long Island Sound Catalina Association, who have members with boats from Cat22's on up.

Does anybody know of an active on-line Catalina Owner's Association or forum? This could be a very good resource as well.

So call me a little cynical, but if you only evaluate a boat on the basis of a test drive, sales brochures or on what salespeople might tell you about the boat, you cannot really get an accurate picture of what it's like to purchase and own it.

He also wants to sell the Beneteau to me.... they've made a bunch of improvements - instrument panel, two electric freshwater heads, freezer, etc.

While I'd like a larger boat, I'd be more inclined to go for the Catalina 30, which I saw at last year's Newport show. The Admiral and I loved that boat, and it would fit in a 30' slip.

If you have any suggestions on how best to learn about the 400 from current owners, pls let me know.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 04:23:50

Bruce, after mopping the drool up from reading of someone taking that route (major upgrade from our boat), thought I would share some of the things we have found while looking/drooling over 'bigger boats' as we too would like to move up in 2012.

The more boats we see, the more features we like and the more reasons why none of the boats have them all!

So we are now in the frame of mind that "We'll know the boat when we find it" and to heck with buyers remorse!

The C40 is a really sweat boat!

We need to buy a condo with a slip and a bigger boat. My fav right now is the 34' Catalina, but if we had the moola, we would go with either the C40(unaffordable right now) or Caliber 35/38(pipe dreams)

When we get enough volume on MVBizX, then maybe those pipe dreams won't drift away in the winds

Paul

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 08:07:59

[url="http://archives.sailboatowners.com/pviewarch.htm?fno=40&sku=2005118092718.46&browse=T&g=[g]&ptl=What%20should%20I%20be%20afraid%20of%20on%2095%20C-40%3F"]Saiboatowners.com forum discussion[/url]... The C-400 Association doesn't mention the C-40. I guess they want to keep the riff-raff out.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/16/2010 08:14:53

aeckhart
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Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 12:23:02

I was in a close race for first place with a Tartan 28 in a club regatta last weekend and we passed neck-n-neck inshore of two identical Catalina 42's anchored offshore. They looked brand spanking new and could have been charter boats. Sweet. I'd like to think they were more excited about seeing a C25 vying for first place in a regatta, than watching me pass over there anchor line......but maybe not.

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 12:38:25

Must not Look.. Erase this post.. 25 very good to me...

Move thread... ACK!!!

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 18:29:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 Must not Look.. Erase this post.. 25 very good to me... Move thread... ACK!!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Better disconnect your internet connection! They're all out there with click of your mouse... the [url="http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=46"]C-400s[/url], the [url="http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=86"]C-42s[/url], the [url="http://www.ericsonyachts.org/home.php"]Ericsons[/url], the [url="http://www.valiantsailboats.com/mac/macindex.htm"]Valiants[/url], the [url="http://robinhoodmarinecenter.com/aaa/robinhood40.html"]Robinhoods[/url],...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/16/2010 18:36:03

Voyager
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5378 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 18:59:49

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but since there is a large number of C-25 Admiralty members still on this forum, I wondered whether anyone had first-hand experience with the C-400.

Following my discussion with the couple, I resolved that my C-25 is perfectly practical for my needs, saves me money on slip and storage fees, on bottom paint, repairs, etc. I can be quite happy for years with Passage.

That said, if I had a few more dollars coming in, I would like to move up to the C-309 (five foot-itis), but my friends have a completely different agenda.

He's the chief corporate counsel for a multi-national corporation, she's a PhD researcher for a medical imaging company. They are both within a few years of retirement, and want to cruise extensively around New England and the East Coast during the summer months.

Paul - you said something that struck a chord with my conversation with the couple: when they first saw the boat, they simply fell in love with it. They looked a several others which were in stock a various dealers. None met the mark.

So, if they go ahead and buy the boat in Annapolis, I will definitely volunteer to help them sail it back to CT.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 19:10:05

Might as well buy in Newport and avoid the tricky run from the C&D Canal around Cape May. Hellier (New London) will probably be at the Newport show.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 08/16/2010 : 20:36:55

Dave,
They checked Hellier first, then a few places on LI. Not a 400 to be had on all of LI Sound or RI.

One of the guys who wants to crew is an ex-navy pilot who sails a 42 footer.

Here's a little story he told about some action he saw way back in the 60's on a flying boat, in an article called Midnight Sun.

http://clipperpioneers.com/NL_2010/CPNew_Apr2010.pdf

I don't think a little rough weather's going to scare him. It will me however...

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 08/17/2010 : 19:23:17

Threads like this don't bother me. I'm so glad we spent all winter looking at much larger boats before settling on our C250. I got the "size lust" out of my system. In the rare case we want to do a week long cruise, we'll charter. So these threads are helpful for us to decide what to charter.

One day our life situation may change to allow more cruising, but for the next several years daysailing on the C250 is all we want.

Edited by - on

redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2010 : 03:49:26

Oh, You are lusting in your heart, I know it...

Sinnerrrrssss!!! Ya whatever..

Anyhoo... Those Robinhoods are sweet. I saw an interior on a boat here that was pretty funny. Nice boat but I'd never thought of using Grandmaws Quilts for boat decor. I love it. Makes you wanna lay down and snuggle...This is my fav interior to date. ( OK 2nd fav )
.

.
.

GranMaw and the American Flag.. They should have put an apple pie in the shot. Not exactly nautical, but it sure seems to open the space up. Makes me want to add 2x2 windows with sheers.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2010 : 16:16:38

I should have guessed you would get some good cabin pics Ray.

Love the pics on your site!

Paul

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/06/2010 : 14:38:02

Here's an update from my dockmate with the Cat 400. He was told by Catalina that he would be receiving the LAST boat coming off the line for the year. So he called to find out where to send the deposit and they never called him back! He had the money, and the desire to buy the boat, but they ignored his phone calls and emails. The dealer in Maryland was similarly unable to get any news about the boat.

After a week and a half of trying, he decided to purchase a Jenneau forty-something. He put his sizeable deposit down and now will receive delivery of the new boat in late April or early May 2011.

I wonder why they would let the sale of a six figure boat go by the wayside. If I were the salesguy, I'd certainly miss the commission!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2010 : 15:33:53

I'd love to hear what happened if Frank Butler found out...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/06/2010 15:34:16

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 10/06/2010 : 16:36:37

I have no clue (and everyone here probably knows that) but . . .

Catalina has made a huge shift over the past couple of years from running and building things out of the west coast to managing from the west coast while all operations are on the east coast. My guess, based on experience running far flung mfg operations, is that when they stopped production in CA the decision tree became strained as, I believe, the marketing and sales and management are still based in the west while all else is based in the east. It has been my experience that communications is the first thing to fail when facilities “move” and it sounds like that has happened here. Compounding the wound is the fact that all brokers sell several different lines and if they are busy on one they may forget about following up on the other. Yes, Frank Butler would be pissed and yes, they may make efforts to apiece, but, bottom line, the last hull for 10 is sold and they assume that the first for 11 will be as well.

Interesting side note, while the Norwalk boat show had darned little in sail offerings, the dealer who has historically been pushing Catalina at the show was pushing their other line – Jeanneau. And, they are slated to do the same at Annapolis only briefly mentioning Catalina in their pre-show blurb.

Hope things get back to normal at Catalina soon!

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/06/2010 : 17:06:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 .... I wonder why they would let the sale of a six figure boat go by the wayside. If I were the salesguy, I'd certainly miss the commission!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If I were the salesguy's boss, I'd have other questions. Unless, of ocurse, they had it sold twice???????????

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/06/2010 : 18:19:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter:
I'd love to hear what happened if Frank Butler found out...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> It's my guess he'll never find out. Peter's got it right - the boat was being built in FLA, not CA.
Apparently the Catalina/Jenneau dealer switched the deal around.
And the salesguy got the Jenneau commission instead of the Catalina commission. Hey - a spiff is a spiff, where ever it comes from.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 10/06/2010 : 19:13:10

Not a surprise... anyway for future reference there is a strong All-Catalina Association on Lake Ontario (Lake Ontario Catalina association - or LOCA) whose members may have some answers if this sort of thing comes up again.

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At Ease
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Response Posted - 10/11/2010 : 12:49:36

I briefly scanned the previous posts and did not see the web site for the C400 Forum...here it is: http://www.catalina400.org/

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jbkayaker
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Response Posted - 10/11/2010 : 15:45:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Dave,
They checked Hellier first, then a few places on LI. Not a 400 to be had on all of LI Sound or RI.

One of the guys who wants to crew is an ex-navy pilot who sails a 42 footer.

Here's a little story he told about some action he saw way back in the 60's on a flying boat, in an article called Midnight Sun.

http://clipperpioneers.com/NL_2010/CPNew_Apr2010.pdf

I don't think a little rough weather's going to scare him. It will me however...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Aw shucks ! The second story is to be corntinued. Where can we find the next issue ?

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 10/11/2010 : 18:40:38

Go here and scroll down the page about half-way:

http://www.clipperpioneers.com/newsletter.html

Check out the other months, some really interesting stories!

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/11/2010 : 19:02:01

So, not to digress too much on this (impossible), the couple who are purchasing the boat will take delivery next April or May 2011.
While several people have "volunteered" to sail the boat from Annapolis to Stratford CT, there are no firm promises to do so. The route could be on the "outside" or "inside" from MD, around Cape May then along NJ to the eastern end of LI, or through NYC Harbor, through Hell's Gate and up through LI Sound.

I would guess that someone who just bought a brand new boat would want to hire experienced blue-water sailors who are certified or have some kind of liability insurance.

What are the Regs (Captain's License)? or what are the customary arrangements for qualifying boat transport-ers?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/11/2010 : 20:40:25

For a professional hire, they want at least a 50-ton Near-Coastal Masters License with a Sail Endorsement. (Near Coastal requires significant experience outside of the demarcation line roughly from Cape May to Montauk.) There are tons of web sites--Google "Yacht Delivery Captain" plus maybe "Northeast" or something.

Even if they go "inside", traversing NY Harbor, the East River, and Hell Gate requires some advance knowledge of the protocols as well as the environment. Otherwise, you could end up with an unpleasant encounter with a large, black RIB with a 50 caliber machine gun on the bow and a guy manning it. DHS and NYPD like to make their statements. It's something that could make a great cocktail story, but it won't be the least bit funny when it's happening.

Outside (the Cape May to Montauk rhumb line--about 225 miles and up to 50 miles off-shore) is simpler, but it's an overnight passage and a weather window is obviously recommended. It could well be a broad reach all the way. Maybe Sten will jump in--I know he's done that route (or Cape May to Block Island, or whatever). I guess one could transit the Shinnecock Inlet and Canal as an alternative to around Montauk, but I haven't been there.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/11/2010 21:01:34

Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/12/2010 : 15:53:03

I'll advise my friends that they should look into hiring a pro. The rest of us will just go along for the ride.

I was wondering whether it would make sense to go "outside" by sailing from Cape May to Sandy Hook (the Joisey Shore) with an appropriate stopover in Barnagat Bay, then sail along the south shore of LI around the twin forks (or through the Shinnecock canal into Gardner's Bay).

(I guess Barnagat Inlet has its own challenges, as do the Shinnecock and Gardners Bay.)

While not the most direct route, at least you're not having to do an offshore passage dealing with weather windows, and you can avoid the NYC law enforcement issues and critical timing the tides for the East River and Hell's Gate.

Edited by - Voyager on 10/12/2010 15:53:30

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/12/2010 : 16:33:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...(I guess Barnagat Inlet has its own challenges, as do the Shinnecock and Gardners Bay.)

While not the most direct route, at least you're not having to do an offshore passage dealing with weather windows, and you can avoid the NYC law enforcement issues and critical timing the tides for the East River and Hell's Gate.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Again, Sten should weigh in here... but we're not talking about long-term forecasts here. If something unexpected is approaching and you're 30 miles from an inlet, by the time the weather hits, the worst place to be could be the inlet and its approach. A long, easy swell off-shore can be a steep, breaking mess near shore and in the inlets.

Maybe the question is whether they want to avoid night sailing, in which case I'm thinking they need three days from May to Montauk, with stops in Barnegat Bay and Great South Bay. Or Barnegat and somewhere on the Sound... A delivery captain familiar with the trip (I'm not) could help them decide.

Edited by - on

jerlim
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Response Posted - 10/12/2010 : 17:21:19

Small detail...as I learned much to my dismay and disappointment...the Shinnecock Canal is spanned by three fixed bridges; with vertical clearances of 23', 22' and 25'

... they're keeping me from making an easy explore onto the big pond...

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