Association Forum - New Catalina 25 owner questions

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

New Catalina 25 owner questions

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

kruhlin
Deckhand

Member Avatar

10 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/16/2002 : 14:12:26

I just purchased a 1983 Catalina 25 - my first saliboat - and I have a few questions. I should also note that not only is this my first sailboat, its also my first sailing experience (other than lessons). I chose the Catalina 25 because it seems to be a great family boat. I keep it on an inland lake and my kids and I plan to spend some weekends out on the lake.

The boat has a head but I don't have a manual for it. The pump leaks quite a bit when pumped and I have no idea how to fix it. Does anyone have a manual for the head? If so, is there any way I can get a copy? The instructions pasted on the bottom side of the cover indicate the manufacturer as Wilcox, Crittenden, Inc. of Waterford CT. Below is a photo.
<img src="http://ruhlin.homestead.com/files/catalina/head.jpg" border=0>

She also has what looks like an original alcohol stove, Hillerange by SeaWard. I have no idea how to safely operate this stove and do not have a manual. Again, if anybody has a manual that I can get a copy of I’d appreciate it. Photo below:
<img src="http://ruhlin.homestead.com/files/catalina/stove.jpg" border=0>

Lastly (at least for now) Underneath the galley is a seacock and I’m note quite sure what its for. The boat has a fresh water tank and a holding tank. The forward seacock feeds the head and drains the sink opposite the head. The galley sink drains into the holding tank. The previous owner said that opening it will cause the galley sink to use seawater instead of fresh water. It seems to me this would contaminate the plumbing to the galley sink. Is this correct? Again – a photo below:
<img src="http://ruhlin.homestead.com/files/catalina/galley_seacock.jpg" border=0>

Thanks for any help.

Kurt

Edited by - on

djones
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2002 : 14:29:53

Kurt,

I'm in the same er "boat" as you, having just got our Cat25 earlier this year. The seacock under the galley sink is the drain for both the galley sink and also the drain for the ice chest. There is a check valve in the line from the ice chest to prevent water from flowing back into the chest.

Your head looks the same as my Head-Mate head from W-C. I ordered a rebuild kit from West Marine, and that took care of the leaking problems.

-Don Jones
"Swept Away" '83 C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2002 : 16:19:25

Kurt,

This page from the C25 parts catalog shows the stock plumbing layout. Unless modified by a previous owner, the galley sink should drain to a seacock beneath the galley stove and not to the freshwater holding tank.
<img src="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc37.gif" border=0>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Lake Erie

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2002 : 16:27:31

Kurt:

Just completed my fifth season on "Wood Duck" (1981 #2616). Have dealt with all the same problems as you. My advice:

1) Check other threads on this site for replacing that "to-hull" under your galley with a real "thru-hull" (also the one forward under the vee-birth, which supplies seawater to the head). The very rarely fail, but are a risk.

2) I replaced the Princess alco stove with an Origo 3000. I love it, and I even cook on board now! Buy from Johnson Sails for about $280, or dicker with West MArine.

3) My Willcox-Crittenden also leaked. It turned out to be a fatigue crack in the base tube. I bought a new Jabsco for $100 which solved several problems all at once: wear on the pump valve (which is leaher and stiffens up), leakage, and a broken seat.

You have a great little boat!

Edited by - on

frich
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2002 : 21:00:59

welcome aboard!

I have the original manuals for both the head and stove. I can send you copies just let me have your address.

On my 84 the plumbing is set-up as in the diagrams copied from the C25 Home page.

E-mail me your address

Frank Rich
84 C25 SK

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2002 : 21:19:31

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
1) Check other threads on this site for replacing that "to-hull" under your galley with a real "thru-hull" (also the one forward under the vee-birth, which supplies seawater to the head). The very rarely fail, but are a risk.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Kurt: What year or hull # is your boat? By about 1984, Catalina had stopped using the infamous "to-hulls" and switched to a flush-mounted thru-hull that has a flat disk on the outside of the hull. Your plastic seacock looks like the kind we have with the newer thru-hull. The older to-hull was a threaded bronze pipe surrounded by a blob of epoxy on the indside of the hull, with no flange on the outside. If you see the blob inside and a hole with no disk on the outside, you have the issue. But your vintage will tell the story best.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/16/2002 21:21:17

Edited by - on

kruhlin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

10 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 00:04:18

Don,
Thanks for the response. Was the rebuild kit reasonably easy to install? What did it rebuild? My leak seems to be coming from the pump mechanism.

Thanks.

Kurt

Kurt,

I'm in the same er "boat" as you, having just got our Cat25 earlier this year. The seacock under the galley sink is the drain for both the galley sink and also the drain for the ice chest. There is a check valve in the line from the ice chest to prevent water from flowing back into the chest.

Your head looks the same as my Head-Mate head from W-C. I ordered a rebuild kit from West Marine, and that took care of the leaking problems.

-Don Jones
"Swept Away" '83 C25 SR/FK

[/quote]

Edited by - on

kruhlin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

10 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 00:09:13

Are you saying you bought a complete head for $100? If so, did it replace right over the existing head? Was it easy to install? Where did you buy it?

For $100 I'm thinking this may be a better bet than the rebuild kit.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Kurt:

Just completed my fifth season on "Wood Duck" (1981 #2616). Have dealt with all the same problems as you. My advice:

1) Check other threads on this site for replacing that "to-hull" under your galley with a real "thru-hull" (also the one forward under the vee-birth, which supplies seawater to the head). The very rarely fail, but are a risk.

2) I replaced the Princess alco stove with an Origo 3000. I love it, and I even cook on board now! Buy from Johnson Sails for about $280, or dicker with West MArine.

3) My Willcox-Crittenden also leaked. It turned out to be a fatigue crack in the base tube. I bought a new Jabsco for $100 which solved several problems all at once: wear on the pump valve (which is leaher and stiffens up), leakage, and a broken seat.

You have a great little boat!

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Edited by - on

kruhlin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

10 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 00:15:13

Dave,

I feel a little silly. The paperwork I have on the boat is mixed, some reads 1983 and some reads 1984. My hull # is CTYK4194M84C. I'm guessing the 84 refers to 1984. And I'm hoping I have a true thru-hull as I've read some of the threads discussing the thru-hull vs. to-hull issue. I don't see the "blob" inside and its too cold to look outside.

Thanks,

Kurt

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
1) Check other threads on this site for replacing that "to-hull" under your galley with a real "thru-hull" (also the one forward under the vee-birth, which supplies seawater to the head). The very rarely fail, but are a risk.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Kurt: What year or hull # is your boat? By about 1984, Catalina had stopped using the infamous "to-hulls" and switched to a flush-mounted thru-hull that has a flat disk on the outside of the hull. Your plastic seacock looks like the kind we have with the newer thru-hull. The older to-hull was a threaded bronze pipe surrounded by a blob of epoxy on the indside of the hull, with no flange on the outside. If you see the blob inside and a hole with no disk on the outside, you have the issue. But your vintage will tell the story best.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/16/2002 21:21:17
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 01:57:08

CTYK4194M84C

CTY= Catalina Yachts

K4194= Serial Number 4194

M84= 1984, Year of Certification

C= October, Month of Certification

Click on this link for more information.
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Lake Erie

Edited by - dlucier on 11/17/2002 13:19:12

Edited by - on

djones
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 08:56:06

Kurt,

There's not much to the rebuild kit for the head. It's really just a collection of gaskets and O-rings. Mine came apart with simple tools. A few of the screws were slightly corroded and had to be wire-brushed. A parts breakdown diagram came with the kit, and is also available on the WC web site.

-Don Jones, '83 C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 10:49:26

Be very careful with this pressurized alcohol stove. They are notorious for "flaring up", and are not-so-laughingly called "The Factory Curtain Ignition Device" by C-25 owners who have had the misfortune of having the stove set fire to the port-aft cabin window drapery. These stoves do not operate well at very low flame settings. The burner head has to be kept HOT to reliably vaporize the liquid fuel, or it will flare up. Coleman white gas camping stoves have the same problem.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA
<lgcharlot@hotmail.com>

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2002 : 13:28:24

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Be very careful with this pressurized alcohol stove. They are notorious for "flaring up", and are not-so-laughingly called "The Factory Curtain Ignition Device"...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Four words: Origo: peace of mind.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2002 : 16:28:35

The Wilcox-Crittenden maintenance kit costs $47.95
http://wilcoxcrittenden.com/sanitation/accessories/Maintainence-Kit.asp?bid=
I bought the kit when I first purchased my Cat 25 and put the new parts in the head. One thing I never did figure out was how to install the inlet flap valve, but the toilet works so I guess I got it right.
http://wilcoxcrittenden.com/displayproductline.asp?bid=& plid=1#
The diagram shows the flap valve (pt.#9) with two flaps "hanging down". The flap valve that came with the kit, one flap "hung" down and the other "hung" up (if that makes any sense)

The Jabsco head costs about $99.95 and bolts down where the existing head is and connects to the hoses in the same fashion.

I took the "curtain burner" (read "original stove") out and it never went back in. I fired it up in my shop and could not master igniting it without flare-ups, so it's still in my shop.

As for your plumbing, it probably needs some redirecting. If the galley sink drain is plumbed to the head holding tank, I would be concerned about odors and gases venting back into the cabin. At least the head has a couple of valves to prevent that, but the galley drain could be a direct line.

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - John Mason on 11/18/2002 16:31:52

Edited by - on

kruhlin
Deckhand

Members Avatar

10 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2002 : 21:08:17

John,

Thanks for the links - I'm guessing you are referring to the Head Mate (I can't find a model on the one in mt boat).

You may be right about the plumbing - I'll chaeck it out.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Kurt

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The Wilcox-Crittenden maintenance kit costs $47.95
http://wilcoxcrittenden.com/sanitation/accessories/Maintainence-Kit.asp?bid=
I bought the kit when I first purchased my Cat 25 and put the new parts in the head. One thing I never did figure out was how to install the inlet flap valve, but the toilet works so I guess I got it right.
http://wilcoxcrittenden.com/displayproductline.asp?bid=& plid=1#
The diagram shows the flap valve (pt.#9) with two flaps "hanging down". The flap valve that came with the kit, one flap "hung" down and the other "hung" up (if that makes any sense)

The Jabsco head costs about $99.95 and bolts down where the existing head is and connects to the hoses in the same fashion.

I took the "curtain burner" (read "original stove") out and it never went back in. I fired it up in my shop and could not master igniting it without flare-ups, so it's still in my shop.

As for your plumbing, it probably needs some redirecting. If the galley sink drain is plumbed to the head holding tank, I would be concerned about odors and gases venting back into the cabin. At least the head has a couple of valves to prevent that, but the galley drain could be a direct line.

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - John Mason on 11/18/2002 16:31:52
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2002 : 08:57:34

The pressurized alcohol stove works fine as long as you know how to use it. The big trick us understanding it doesn't work like a Coleman/propane stove: it has to be preheated.

To light the stove:

1. fill the tank with soot-free alcohol and pump it up.

2. open the valve enough to let a little alcohol run into the burner bowl. turn the valve off.

3. light the alcohol, and let it burn off.

4. after the alcohol has burned off (thus heating the burner), open the valve again. If you get liquid alcohol, it's not hot enough, and you need to go back to #2. If you get a hissing sound, light the bowl, and you'll get a nice blue flame.

All the curtain burning comes when people don't sufficiently preheat the burner. It takes more preheating in warm weather than in cold: it's the temperature differential between the liquid and the bowl that makes all the difference.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.