Association Forum - Lifelines Under!

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Lifelines Under! - How far is too far?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Sailor Sam
Deckhand

Member Avatar

7 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/20/2010 : 11:38:15

How far is too far with a C-25 Swing Keel?

We have a 1985 C-25 swinger. We've dunked the rails from time to time, and had the lifelines close as the jib was dragging.

My question is for anyone who has taken an older 25 to the point of no return.

While good sea stories are great (I'd be more than happy to share my knockdown and broach stories with ya another time), I'm concerned here with year, make, model (swing keel) and length specific only. Older Catalina 25 swing keel.

Have you ever laid 'er down? Come close? Turtled? Broached at the bottom of a large swell? I'd like to know how far is too far, and what did your swing keel do?

Prepare for the worst, expect the best. Everything else is Duck Soup.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2010 : 14:23:17

You mean like this far?

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2010 : 14:43:37

OK - our experience...1980 swing keel...the most we can get her to heel is about 33 deg..after that she rounds up - basically completely out of our control...just 3 weeks ago, we had the 150 genny and a full main out full, but tightly sheeted and pointing as tight as we could go, in 20 knots, we'd be flying along at about 6.8+ knots and a when a gust would hit us, we couldn't keep her on course...we just hung on as she went rails deep and rounded up...our goal of the afternoon was just how far we could push things - and we did it time and time again...they are well built, sturdy and a comfort

Edited by - jerlim on 08/20/2010 14:45:19

Even Chance
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2010 : 18:26:02

1985 SKTR: came around a point with full main and 150 genny, and was knocked over with lee rail in the water. I let the sheets fly and the boat popped back up. My wife, down below, did not pop up quite as quickly.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2010 : 21:18:09

Went over 75º-80º, standing on what should have been the vertical side of the cockpit well, rudder completely out of the water - since I couldn't steer, I had a free hand to dump the main and rounded up. I suspect it would take a combination of lots of wind and a large, beam-on breaking wave to put you in a non-recoverable situation. The Admiral took it well: "I'M NOT DOING THIS WHEN I'M 65!!"

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2010 : 05:17:57

Dave - what were the conditions and your point of sail?

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2010 : 08:06:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 You mean like this far?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nice bottom job.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2010 : 08:31:35

You have to admit, that's the hard way to inspect your bottom paint!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2010 : 14:35:46

farthest I've pushed my boat was while racing, I shipped a little bit of water over the cockpit coaming. This has happened twice. I routinely sail with 30 to 40 degrees of heel in gusts. C-25's a very well mannered.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2010 : 14:47:57

"I routinely sail with 30 to 40 degrees of heel in gusts"
Peter - that's a real speed killer. The C25 starts to lose speed at about 22 degrees of heel.
When hit by a gust either head up or ease the mainsheet - keep her on her feet and you'll be much faster.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2010 : 21:14:23

It's not just a sail efficiency issue... The more you heel, the less efficient your keel and rudder are. At 40 degrees, the keel cannot make the boat track to windward as efficiently, and almost half of your rudder's force is trying to push the transom up rather than counteract weather helm--so you have to pull harder on the tiller to get the same leeward force, pushing the stern up even more and creating substantially more drag. At the extreme, the rudder can't exert enough horizontal force so you round up. It might be exciting, but it's slow.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2010 : 09:28:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 "I routinely sail with 30 to 40 degrees of heel in gusts"
Peter - that's a real speed killer. The C25 starts to lose speed at about 22 degrees of heel.
When hit by a gust either head up or ease the mainsheet - keep her on her feet and you'll be much faster.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No I do, and I agree. I just wanted to address the question that Sailor Sam had and give him a sense of confidence about his boat, that 40 degrees is not the end of the world on a C-25. You see the gust coming at you on the water and as it hits I either point up a bit, loosen the traveler and or the sheet or all of the above when I get hit by puffs like this. The only problem I ever have is that my traveler is on my cabin house, not at the stern, so I have to have crew to adjust the traveler on time.

Totally agreed guys, I probably should have worded it differently.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2010 : 13:40:57

1984 Fin Keel - so not exactly meeting your requirements for storytelling, but hey, I gotta brag.

Went out racing on Saturday - measured windspeed of 44 knots apparent on another boat.

We washed the windows and winches multiple times, but only once had green water in the cockpit. Sailplan was 110% jib and double-reefed main. Until the main ripped. Then we sailed under jib alone, which meant we weren't able to point as well. No injuries, no damage to the rig or baot beyond torn sails.

Went out for more fun on Sunday. Similar winds but a little less intense. Put on the original main but no reef lines and 110% jib. Washed windows and winches again and again, but no green water in the cockpit. Total damage - the life ring floated off its holder and was lost.

Today we finished the series. winds were lighter yet, only in the 20's. Same sail plan - 110% and unreefed main. No real excitement to speak of, but we were conservative in our sailing - fisherman's reef and lots of pinching rather than taking a beating from the waves. Total damage - a batten chewed through the sail and came out.

So total damage after 3 days of heavy wind sailing - torn mainsail, torn batten pocket in a jib, lost lifering. No damage to hull or rig. Th efunny thing is that oru lifering is mounted on teh Pushpit's top rail. For it to float off, we had to have been over pretty derned far, but we didn't ship water then. Competitors in Tanzers and O'Day's were both swamped and forced to bail for much of the race.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.