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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/10/2010 : 21:41:08

Hey, I am close to pulling the trigger on a 1983 Pearson 30 Flyer for about $5K. New BMW 7 hp diesel in 2004, raw water cooled. Martec folding prop. Good racing record (back in 1980). Needs TLC and racing sails. Alternator not working on engine. Needs bottom job. Fully set up for racing, most lines led aft. Tiller (which is what I want). Autopilot.

Yes, I know the boat is balsa cored both deck and hull. I will be checking hull, deck, rudder, keel, transom and all structures very carefully. Will have the boat surveyed with a moisture meter.

What do you guys think? Rates 138 which for here the class breaks are 138 and higher is Class 5. Perfect, the scratch boat in Class 5. I'll be racing Cat 36, 34, 30 and all the other stuff in that range.

Criteria: wanted strong, fast, simple and dependable 30 foot boat for short handed coastal ocean racing and limited buoy racing. Should be good down wind in light air. Should be decent upwind. My friend showed me this Flyer. Looks like a great deal.

Plan to sell all my racing stuff for the Cat 25 on the swap meet after the Nationals and strip the boat down to basics and sell her for what I can get. New engine, new main, new jibs. Boat in excellent condition.

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 05:02:18

Boat looks like fun, but that one sounds really cheap Jim. Did a quicky and found [url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/Sail/Cruiser%252FRacer/Pearson/Flyer/1"]these on yachtworld[/url]

Paul

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 05:50:09

Jim,

A friend of mine races a Pearson 30 Flyer she found in rough condition on eBay. I can't remember which of the many repairs it needed were model-specific, but the mast step sticks in my mind. Overall, it seems a sturdy race boat which can point quite high. I'm not fond of that particular standing rigging configuration, but that's a personal preference (or prejudice).

For any not familiar, the Flyer's deep fin keel, wide beam, and keel stepped mast make trailering out of the question.

Re: "...wanted strong, fast, simple and dependable 30 foot boat for short handed coastal ocean racing and limited buoy racing. Should be good down wind in light air. Should be decent upwind."

It's all of that.

Re: "...that one sounds really cheap..." [$5K]

It won't be by the time it's had enough 'TLC' to be competitive!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1778 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 06:36:59

Pearson made a good boat. Having owned a couple and looked at a bunch more, one hidden area to look at relates to the resin system that was used at time of construction. The Pearsons' were (and still are) pioneers with trying and mastering different types of resin systems -- vinylester vs polyester, types, brands, etc. Regrettably, when they left Pearson Yachts the remaining people kept trying but with far less initial success. During the late 70's and early 80's when blistering became a major concern as hull construction focused on reducing weight they tried many different flavors in an attempt to beat the problem. The result is that some boats have serious issues related to brittle gel coat and water permeation. An example is that very few Pearson 24's have survived because of glass issues. The Flyer was designed to be a one-class racer as well as overall racer so I am sure you will get spirited performance. Just make sure you have a well qualified surveyor look at the glass -- crazing, seams, etc, -- very carefully.

Edited by - bigelowp on 09/11/2010 06:44:46

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 08:18:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 Plan to sell all my racing stuff for the Cat 25 on the swap meet after the Nationals and strip the boat down to basics and sell her for what I can get. New engine, new main, new jibs. Boat in excellent condition.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Jim,

Who made your main and how old is it? I'm going to be in the market soon.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 08:47:28

I don't think I want to sell the main but it is a Ulman full batten loose footed with flattening reef and 1st and 2nd reef. 18 months old. Cost $1200 new.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 08:50:51

If you change your mind let me know.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 09:05:45

I think the boat is worth more but there is no market here for 1983 30 foot race boats that have sat in the slip and not used at all for the last 15 years. I could probably get it for nothing. I am seeing it and going for a test sail Sunday. I'll post photos.

I am tired of racing my Cat 25. I love the boat. I have put thousands of hours into work on board. It fits me like a glove. I would sail her anywhere. But I have so much fun racing. It is what I really want to do with my (remaining) life. I could spend $10K trying to make the Cat 25 faster. I'd still have a boat rating 228 in a fleet that is 138 and up and there are some total race equipped Cat 30s and the like I just can't hang with. I am the slowest boat racing in all San Diego. There is one boat that rates 213. Almost all boats are faster than 200. In the ocean races (which I love and we have all year around) pretty no one races much slower than 150.

Over labor day I did the Oceanside - San Diego race. I took the boat 27 miles to weather myself Saturday. Crew came down Sunday morning. We got out to the line. This is normally a 38 mile downwind race (I've done it 3 years in a row now). We had light headwinds all day - about 3 knots of air. I was racing 2 Cat 36s and another boat I am not sure what it was. At about the halfway point we were actually ahead of the Cat 36s boat for boat. At sunset we had to tack offshore and the wind started coming up. The long tack out around La Jolla winds came up to 12 - 15 knots and the seas were bumpy and on the nose. Not favorable for us. The Cat 36s passed us and we never saw them again. We tacked and tacked in building winds coming directly from the mark and finished the race at midnight. After handicaps applied we were 1 1/2 hours out of first, 35 minutes out of 2nd and 22 minutes out of 3rd. Not bad for a 12 hour race. However I did realize that this is really what I want to be doing. It was not exactly fun (would have been better if we were in the lead). It was very challenging. I served the crew lunch, snacks, coffee, hot dinner, after dinner coffee, and hot chocloate at 11 PM. In wet, rough seas while wearing full foulies (photos on my facebook page).

In the next 3 weeks I have a race every weekend.

I've been averaging 2 races per month. I am pretty much in last place in every race. I only beat the DNS and DNF boats. I've paid my dues and it is time to move up.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 09:41:53

With that kind of Resume' Jim, it's obvious that you should get the bigger boat, hope it's the right one first time around, there are plenty of others if not.

Looking for the pics.

Paul

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 12:02:29

Don't get lost on all that deck space! It sounds like the boat for you--needs work, and you like to work... Needs sails, but the hull might be practically free. Besides the thorough moisture test, make sure the surveyor does a thermal scan on the raw-water diesel, and get his opinion on its expected life. (My big V-6 outboard is raw-water-cooled too, so I can't slam that too much.) And get that fuel tank cleaned and flushed out--it's almost certainly full of algae and sludge that'll choke you in the first big chop.

It sounds like Peter B. is on to something--you might look around for a surveyor who's familiar with that history. I suspect some elements of it apply to more than just Pearson--I've known some other racers of that era (like Mumms) with all kinds of layup problems.

Follow your dream! We only go around once!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/11/2010 12:04:38

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 18:15:17

There are 2 of them in our marina. One is well equipped adn well sailed, the other is also well equipped. Both have newer mylar sails.

One of them I can beat in my Catalina 25 without much thought. The other I can't get close to.

As for trailering, the slower of the two is on a custom built trailer and regularly makes highway trips - however the guy who owns it has his family/crew follow in a "pilot car."

You will make your own opinion on the interior and deck layout, so I won't talk much there.

I think the boats feel pretty solid on the water, and aren't too bad to sail. If it would help, I can put you in touch with th emore advanced of the two skippers in our club. Dunno if he;d have time to return your calls though. Lots going on right now.

Edited by - on

Nukey
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2010 : 21:52:30

I've kind of been eyeing the one in Charleviox, MI; haven't been up to see it though. I am leery of only having a porta-potti on longer races. What's your longest race?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 02:59:14

I am doing race like Newport - Ensenada which is 125 miles. For my Cat 25 that is two days and nights at sea. Plus there is the delivery up and back. The porta pottie works great on long trips. When full, you just dump it over the side.

Here are some of the races I do

Newport - Ensenada 125 miles
Border Run (Newport - San Diego) 65 miles. Best finish - 2nd in class, first over all double handed.
Mission Bay - Oceanside 30 miles
Oceanside - San DIego - 38 miles
San Diego around the Coronados - 30 to 36 miles depending on the finish. Done about 4 times per year.
Around Catalina (several variations, Crew of Two Around is about 100 miles).

And the big ome, the Cabrillo Series. This is 4 races in January and March. Our season of big weather and seas. All head down from San Diego into Mexico. All about 60 - 75 miles. Full foulies, full offshore gear.

Never done but would like to:

Bishop Rock Race. Starts in Catalina, rounds a rock that is 100 miles out, finish in San Diego.

Islands Race - Long Beach, around Catalina and San Clemente islands, about 65 miles offshore, ends in San Diego. 125 miles.

Guadalupe Island race. Single handed. Los Angeles, round Guadlupe Island (200 miles south of San Diego, 150 miles offshore) finish in Catalina. 400 mile race. Upwind bash back. Done in April - toughest month. Single toughest test in CA waters.

Single Handed Transpac.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 03:30:43

Things I plan on selling (Standard Rig Boat)

#1 spinnaker - 30 x 18 0.75 oz with turtle bag good shape. Triradial cut. Some professional patches.
#2 spinnaker - 29.5 x 16 0.5 oz. no bag. in poor shape many tape patches (practically free, good for practice).
#3 spinnaker - 29.5 x 14 0.5 oz with turtle bag in perfect shape used about 10 times. Can be flown poleless, has hank for forestay.

Stayset 5/16 spinnaker sheets with plastic end fittings and donuts. 50 feet each. Light air sheets. Seldom used. 100% new condition.

VPC 8mm spinnaker sheets with metal end fittings and donuts. 50 feet each. Heavy air sheets. Frequent use but like new condition. Ultra low stretch line.

Stayset 5/16 spinnaker halyard, 80 feet. Wichard shackle. New condition.

#1 dacron 155 jib good shape, hanks
#1 mylar/laminate jib 145% good shape, hanks on a luff wire, can be converted back to wire in 10 minutes
#2 dacron 135% very good shape, hanks
#2 mylar/laminate jib 125% good shape, hanks over wire, ditto on conversion back to wire
60% storm jib, fits tall rig or standard (not a full hoist, its on a pendant). Hanks. 100% brand new condition.

both mylar/laminate sails 2 years old, from Merit 25. Made by Sinbad Sails (a local loft).

all sails have bags.

Spinnaker pole 11 feet, new end fittings

2 year old Tohatsu XXL shaft electric start 4 stroke 9.8 HP. Trade for your running old motor + cash

18 month old Ulman full batten loose footed main with cunningham, flattening, 1st and 2nd reef. Trade for your old main + cash. The sail has wrinkles but the cloth still feels pretty much like new. Telltales, logo, sail numbers. About 200 days on this sail. A little stretched near the 2nd reef. Bag.

pop top cover like new condition

Navico TP 1800 tiller pilot

Honda 7 gallon gas tank with fittings for Nissan/Tohatsu motor.

I plan to list the boat first with all this stuff and see if there is any interest. Then sell all this to you guys and drop the price to rock bottom.

Boat will be sold with old 155, old 110, your old main and your old motor.

I'd also consider selling my oversize Barient 2 speed cockpit winches for your winches + cash.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 08:51:59

If the pop top cover would fit an '89 I'd be interested.

I'm very interested in the autopilot.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 18:48:22

JimB517
I am just an offshore racer wantabee but everything I read about it suggests that a 30 foot boat is generally considered the minimum. Charleston Offshore Racing Association (SC) for example requires 30 feet or longer. Are there any more seaworthy boats that meet your requirements ?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 19:52:38

Hey Jim,

We all know you've put Indiscipline III through its paces, and it is now time to move up to a boat designed for racing.

Good luck with this Pearson 30 Flyer, but if buying this boat doesn't work out, I'm sure you'll have a blast on whichever new boat you end up getting!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2010 : 20:10:44

Well I took the boat out today. Winds were about 15 gusting higher and seas 2 to 3.

The running rigging is shot and needs to be replaced. Still have rope - wire lines everywhere.

The clutches are shot and need to be replaced.

Most lines terminate at the mast and that can be lived with for awhile but needs to be dealt with.

Standing rigging is original 1983 and looks good and the boat was stiff but should be replaced for what I want to do.

Engine is new in 2004 and started right up and ran great all day. It is a BMW 7 HP diesel and the charging circuit is shot. Otherwise engine, shaft, prop, were fine. Engine was quiet and very low vibration (much nicer than the Yanmar 7 HP). Only a 4 gallon tank and a single battery. Great engine room access.

Sails were surprisingly better than what I expected. #2 mylar laminate jib was fine. Spinnaker was well patched but OK.

Traveller most of the blocks were frozen and need TLC but worked OK.

Mast, boom, deck, hull, keel bolts, interior all very nice. Lots of signs of water intrusion here and there along the side of the hull along the inside. Boat has a sprayed on headliner and its peeling off everywhere inside.

Wind instruments shot, missing the mast head stuff.

Knotmeter worked.

Autopilot worked.

VHF worked.

Stereo worked.

How did she sail?

This boat is WAY WAY powered up compared to my boat. We were constantly rounding up or near rounding up with #2 jib and full main. It points like a witch compared to the C25. Inboard jib tracks let you sheet way in. The boat is mainly powered by the huge main.

The boat is 11 feet wide and when it hits a big wave it stops. There is little knifing through. The boat loves weight aft and on the rail and hates weight forward.

We were seeing consistent speeds 6.5 to 8 knots upwind in 15 knots of air.

The boat loves to reach.

The boat loves the spinnaker and we could easily run 8 knots with the wind just aft the beam. There were not waves enough to plane but I'm sure she would surf very well. A masthead spinnaker would be an interesting idea. So would running backstays.

The boat did not like DDW course and instead loved being heated up under spin.

Over all I loved it. It is in between a sport boat and a keel boat like a Catalina. Heeled way over and made a lot of leeway. I did not have the feel of feathering her up just shy of a round up but I think I could learn that.

Round ups were pretty gentle and could be well anticiapted. Travelling down and dumping main was 100% required at all times in gusts.

She would be very hard to single hand.

There are no cockpit winches (4 winches on cabin top) and would really need cockpit winches for spinnaker in my opinion.

Was equipped with a reaching strut but no twingers.

Overall needs a lot of work and $$$ to bring her up to full strenght but can be sailed right now.

The key is condition and value survey and full check out with the moisture meter.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2010 : 10:01:00

Got pix?? Sounds like you've got your plans for her all laid out! I think you know that standing rigging "looking good" means almost nothing. 27 years in salt... That's item #1. Might as well get some quotes now so it's part of your arithmetic.

Now, what about that single-handing comment? How's that gonna work for you?

One of these days those big Cats are gonna be saying, "Oh $#!+, that Flyer is gonna be in the race!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/13/2010 10:02:20

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1778 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2010 : 11:29:14

Jim -- excellent review! Might there be a Pearson Flyer owners association or all Pearson group where you can get some additional info as to how others have modified Flyers cost effectively for racing?

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2010 : 15:46:57

Why not a C30?

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2010 : 19:21:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 Why not a C30?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">60% of the displacement and a bigger, fractional rig... He wants to "Fly"!

(At least it isn't as extreme as an Olson 30.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/13/2010 19:47:10

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2010 : 10:37:23

How wonderful! This sounds great for you. Can you weigh the boat? If it is water logged you will discover that. It would be a quick way to decide if it can sail to its numbers. You will single hand it once you are done with the deck redesign and decide how many reefs you need, man, sounds like fun to me.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2010 : 10:23:22

I've sailed lots on Cat 30s. They are nice crusing, family boats. They rate 198. Once again near the back of PHRF 5. In special conditions they can win. Conditions where the wind comes up late - which usually doesn't happen. I can beat cruise equipped Cat 30s but not race equipped ones.

I want to be the fast boat in PHRF 5, not the slow one.

I want to bust off 1/2 mile surfs under spinnaker and see speeds in the teens.

I want to be in front looking back to see who is coming up.

Here is a little analysis I did of PHRF 5.

PHRF San Diego Class 5 OWC rating (ocean racing)
PHRF 138 and up

3 boats rate 138:

Kirby 30
Islander 36
Jennau 37

Here’s the boats rating 144

J30
4 Catalina 36
Hunter 36

Newport 33 rates 147

150 and up there are a whole bunch of Cat 34, Cat 309, lots of different boats.

170 and Up you get the Cat 30s and all the small boats.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2010 : 12:16:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 

There are no cockpit winches (4 winches on cabin top) and would really need cockpit winches for spinnaker in my opinion.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On a boat that size you will want your kite trimmer to be out of the cockpit near the shrouds. The spin sheet will run aft to whatever you have set up on the rail, then forward to one of the cabintop winches. Since the boat is all main, you can't see the edge of the sail to trim properly if you stay in the back of the bus.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2010 : 18:52:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
 

On a boat that size you will want your kite trimmer to be out of the cockpit near the shrouds. The spin sheet will run aft to whatever you have set up on the rail, then forward to one of the cabintop winches. Since the boat is all main, you can't see the edge of the sail to trim properly if you stay in the back of the bus.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The guy who sails his well in our fleet modified his foredeck to include a telescopic bowsprit and then did some work altering his keel. Not sure of the details there.

He sails in the spin fleet, single handed, adn often doesn't bother deploying his chute. Seems flying chute is more trouble than its worth - especially alone. His results are here: http://www.byc.on.ca/2010-lsis-racing-results under flying sail. Its been a rough year for him.

Club results for teh boat are far better, but its not as competitive a fleet for that boat, and not really a fair comparison.

Edited by - on

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