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Question about tongue weight

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/20/2002 : 08:12:40

Hello All,

Does anyone know the tongue weight for the C25 on a trailer? This weekend I'm looking at a 1987 SR SK, hull # 5553 ( I think ) on a two axle trailer (Trailrite?). I'm trying to find out if I have a vehicle that will pull it the 350 miles home.

Thanks.

Ben

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 10:12:14

Hi Ben,

For the boat and trailer to track behind the tow vehicle and not "fishtail" all over, you need to have 10%+ tongue weight. For a C25 (completely empty) and trailer, that will be around 550 to 600 lbs. If you leave the engine, sails, extra gear, tools, etc; well then the tongue weight might need to be 700 to 800 lbs. And, if you have many options aboard, the tongue weight might be in excess of 1,000 lbs.

Don't rely on the "brochure" displacement of 4,550 lbs for the fk and 4,150 lbs for the swing. These are the "designer" displacements. In production nearly all of the C25s ended up heavier.......in some cases quite a lot heavier.

Incidentally, I personally know of at least two C25s that have topped 10,000 lbs towing weight. Both owners have rebuilt their trailers and added a third axel and wheels.

Whenever I tow Snickerdoodle (which is seldom and with a borrowed trailer for a C27), I rent a 1-ton 4x4 truck with a large block engine. It's the best rig I've used and I don't worry at all about any extra tongue weight.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 10:27:11

Thanks Bill, that's very helpful. Where do you rent a truck like that? I called some car rental places around Columbus, Ohio and no one rents large pickup trucks like that.

Ben

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:16:47

Ben,

I tow my C25 wing keel to and from the ramp every year with a Chev Silverado 1500 4x4 (305 V8). There are no special towing options and I don't have any problem either towing or launching.

When I bought the boat in Milwaukee, I towed it home to Northern Michigan, behind a two wheel drive F150 with a 351 V8. It trailed so smoothly on the highway I hardly knew it was there. At one point I checked the speedo and found I was doing 80 MPH. Kind of scared me, but that gives an idea of how nice the boat trailers.

Of the three keel models offered, I believe the wing is the heaviest. You shouldn't have any problem with any of these vehicles.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:20:47

Ben,
I recently bought the original trail-rite trailor (for my 250) back from a sailor who purchased it from the original owner. He used it for a 23' O'day and had re-adjusted the trailor to accomodate his tounge weight. When I recently hauled out my 250 we immediately discovered it had almost 0 tounge weight. We had to back the boat off, haul out the trailor and loosen all the ubolts that hold the axles to the trailor and move the axles forward. We busted a few knuckles but other than that it took three of us with wrenches about 30 minutes to make the adjustment. I do not know how much tounge weight we created but it pulled perfectly at 55-60 mph. I rented a 1 ton truck from a local truck rental place here in Austin. I used a 3/4 ton to put her back in since I did not have to pull it out...but I agree on getting a 1-ton or if you use a 3/4 ton be sure it has a posi-track rearend for the 2 wheel drive at a minimun. Be sure to check the bearings and the tires for dry rot. I would also be sure to have a spare trailor tire/jack for any long distance hauling.
Steve Steakley

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:21:02

Thanks Al,

It suprises me that you pulled it with an F150. I thought the towing capacity on one of these was only 5 or 6,000 pounds. I have a GMC Suburban 1500, but i think it's towing capacity is only 5 or 6,000 pounds too.

Ben

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 11:21:57

Ben,
We have friends that tow their C25s 500 miles one-way each year from the hilly terrains of Pittsburgh to the North Channel with 2-wheel drive, 1/2 ton, V-8 pick-ups with no real complaints. Last month I even saw some soul towing one with a V-8 Cherokee (which I wouldn't condone except for short distances.)
There's a group of guys at our marina that rent a half-ton pick-up from U-Haul each spring and fall. If it's a Trail-Rite you'll need a 2 5/16 ball and a class 4 hitch (it's amazing how many people have undersized hitches!) In PA you have to have brakes on both axles to be legal - you may want to check OH regs - maybe you'll just have to cross your fingers to get it home.
BTW, I always try to avoid towing in the rain - but if you have to - give yourself lots & lots of stopping room. It's a nerve racking adventure to be sure.
Good luck and keep those pictures coming. Remember, even a bad day putzing with boats is better than a good day at the office!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 16:04:17

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Thanks Al,

It suprises me that you pulled it with an F150. I thought the towing capacity on one of these was only 5 or 6,000 pounds. I have a GMC Suburban 1500, but i think it's towing capacity is only 5 or 6,000 pounds too.

Ben
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Ben,

Roger that! A standard C25 without any extra gear on board runs around 4.5-6,000 lbs. Still, you shouldn't have any problem pulling with an F150/Chev 1500. You need to make sure your trailer has good brakes before you move however. By the way, I have an Ideal trailer that came with my boat from the dealer. Note this, a friend of mine pulled his Santa Cruz 40 from the barn and down the street with a Toyota truck. I think it was a Tundra. His butt was dragging, but he did it.

Al
GALLIVANT

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WGriswold
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 : 16:12:21

My 1986 swing keel, moderately equiped without the motor weighed in at 7200 lbs including the trailer. I towed it for many years with a F150 4x4 extended cab with a 302 V8. The towing capacity was 7700 lbs. Everything was ok but the engine was inadequate. I had to go uphill in first gear. My current tow vehicle is a 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban with the 454 V8. It is much better going uphill. Except for the power problem I don't see much difference in towing characteristics between the two vehicles. I even use my explorer for very short trips in town as necessary. I wouldn't use it for more than a few miles on flat low speed roads.

Wait Griswold
Lake Tahoe

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 14:59:37

When we got our fixed keel boat from the Sacramento Delta 1.5 years ago I borrowed a trailer for an O'Day 27. The boat was much further forward on the trailer than I would have liked, but I wasn't there when the yard crained it up and on. A friend came with his 1 ton dulley and it towed well. Once home I hooked it up to my Grand Cherokee with V 8, this has more than enough power for the boat. The front end was up in the air so much I could harldy see the road. When we got a Trail rite trailer built for the boat it road much more level. I used the jeep for a trip to San Francisco. The boat towed well, unless you got over 50 - 55 miles / hour then it was fish tail city. After that we started a search for a better tow truck. The research I did said there is no towing capacity difference between a 1 ton and 3/4 ton truck. The diference is about 800 lbs carring capacity in the bed. We got a used 1 ton dulley with 4 full size doors, is that extended, crew or what ever. It pulls the boat with ease. I think the big difference between the jeep and the truck is vehicle weight. The jeep is just too light as a tow vehicle for such a heavy load. I don't know what a 1/2 ton truck weighs but ours is about 10000lbs and is not bullied around by the load. Oh it is rated to pull 10000lbs also.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Sailynn
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 18:55:38

If the road home is flat and you have good brakes a 1/2 ton will do it for that short of distance. My friend pulled a C25 from Calif. to Washington with a Chevy Blazer and only fishtailed going downhill once in a while. I wouldn't do it, very stressfull, but if your not long hauling, it can be done. Our C25 tongue weight is around 500#'s.

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pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 20:53:56

Hi Ben,

Go Bucks.

Too bad the crowd got so stupid after the game.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>Was that on frat row?

I was at the Purdue (spelling?) game in 1968 when we won the big ten. A guy shimmied up the flag pole. Rex Kern was QB. Jim Otis was the killer fullback. Sweet memories.

It was crazy but nobody burned up any cars. I was 9 years old.

Anyway:

Some vehicles are rated to tow a lot of weight. Look at the trailer hitch to make sure it matches the vehicles rating. If not, load very carefully.

Class III hitches are rated to 5000 lbs and 500 lbs tounge weight. I pulled ESSAYONS with a shasta motorhome that had a class III hitch. It did just fine.

A Class IV would be best for a C-25.

My chevy van is rated to pull 7400 lbs but came from the factory with a class III hitch. I'll have to be very carefull when setting the tounge weight.

Stupid me..I sold ESSAYONS and the Shasta.<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf07b3127cce9216c1320a400000001410" border=0>

Good luck.

Paul

Edited by - on

TomK
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 22:20:49

Hello, 1st time here, and glad to have found you all.

I got myself a boat <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> 85 C25 sk/trailor. Could use an opinion from you fine folks.

I need to tow from Dayton to Cleveland OH (about 100 miles). I own a Ford Ranger 4x4 2.9L V6, and was thinking this was enough to do the job. I understand the boat/trailor weighs roughly 5000lbs which is a little beyond the trucks rating. I did the front and rear brakes last weekend on it, but should I reconsider?

Thanks

Edited by - TomK on 11/26/2002 22:22:21

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 01:14:34

Welcome to the forum Tom. You will find some great people here and the range of discussion can be almost as interesting as sailing.<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
I have been pulling my C25/swing for the last five years with a Dodge 2500 turbo-diesel, extended cab. Most sailors don't have a reason to have a truck like this. I was fortunate that my business needed a heavy truck. I don't think the IRS minded that I pulled my boat with it once in a while. The little Ford Ranger is just far and away too small to pull and more importantly, to control a trailer/boat combination as heavy as you are talking about. Your estimate on total weight is probably a minimum of 2000lbs light. As stated earlier, tongue weight is at least 700 to 800 lbs. Your front axle will be extremely light. Combined with the Ranger's short wheel base you are spelling disaster.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf07b3127cce92174a1d6afe0000001410" border=0>
The best bet is to find a friend who has the right vehicle or go to an equipment rental business and rent a vehicle. Good luck.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:27:28

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I need to tow from Dayton to Cleveland OH (about 100 miles). I own a Ford Ranger 4x4 2.9L V6, and was thinking this was enough to do the job. I understand the boat/trailor weighs roughly 5000lbs which is a little beyond the trucks rating. I did the front and rear brakes last weekend on it, but should I reconsider?

Thanks - Tom K
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Tom,

Welcome to the group!

I don't have a vehicle big enough to haul my boat, so I've got to rent a truck every time I need to move her. The cost isn't as bad as I had thought, and the peace of mind is well worth it in my opinion. I paid $79.99 per day, plus $.30 a mile for every mile over 100 miles. The first truck I rented was a Ford F-250 diesel, and the second time they gave me a Ford F-350 diesel for the same rate:

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf06b3127cce9211893372040000001410" border=0>

Murphy follows me wherever I go ... I blew a tire on the trailer while on the way to the slip (all four tires were 1 1/2 years old, and they had less than 1200 miles on them ... that was the LAST thing I expected to happen). If I had been pulling that big load with a small truck, I'm betting I would have fishtailed all over the highway (to make matters worse, the tire blew in a construction area where the interstate was narrowed down to two lanes with concrete barriers on both sides).

I have a good friend who pulled an O'Day 23 with a vehicle that wasn't big enough ... he burned up his transmission and it cost a bundle to fix it. If the transmission burns up on a rental vehicle, it's their obligation to fix it (unless you were clearly using the vehicle for something it wasn't rated for).

I'm not trying to scare you or throw you a wet blanket ... I just think a rental truck is a good deal if you only have to haul a short distance. You might have to do some searching to find a big enough truck, but, since you are near a metropolitan area, I think you could find something that would work with a few phone calls.

Congratulations on your new C-25 ... you're going to love her!

Good luck!

Tom ... I just dug up the toll-free number I called to rent the truck(s). Since they call themselves "Interstate Truck Rentals," maybe they can help you out if you decide to rent. The number is 1-800-900-0532

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

Edited by - buzz maring on 11/27/2002 12:13:37

Edited by - on

TomK
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 18:50:59

Thanks Guys! I think I will reconsider.

I'm pretty excited. The boat needs some work, but thats not something I am afraid of(I'm a carpenter). It has sat for the last 2 years, so its mostly alot of elbow greese to get her back in shape. I think this winter may feel like an eternity <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

I grew up sailing in my dads Flying Scott, and my brother bought a 28' Hunter a few years back, but have to admitt I am out of touch to the sailing world now. I look very forward to hanging out here absorbing all you have to offer!

Huge thanks for that phone # Buzz, I'll give'em a call!

Edited by - on

TomK
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 18:54:15

oops
Hey Ben, sorry didnt mean to hijack your thread <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 21:02:51

No apologies necessary, Tom. This is why we're here.

Ben

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2002 : 03:44:30

Here is the other tow vehicle I sometimes use<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf09b3127cce921dddbcfc0f0000001410" border=0>

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2002 : 12:11:39

Matt/Brigitte,

Scheesch, overpowered I'd say, Reminds me of the time I hauled a twenty foot keel boat up an incredibly steep ramp and motored home fourty or so miles using a Fiat 600 Multipla. And the boat was full of water. What did I know? I was young and open for adventure. Didn't have a website then for direction. Matter of fact websites weren't around for fifty years more or less. And the beat goes on.

Val ( I'd go sailing but the admiral would scuttle me timbers if I did), but tomorrow for sure) on "CALISTA" # 3936

Val Bisagni

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2002 : 17:14:17

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf09b3127cce921e70db5d420000001410" border=0>
17 animal crackers per foot <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

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