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Pintle Broken, Rudder Fracture

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watercayman
1st Mate

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Cayman Islands
49 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/19/2010 : 18:32:55

Hi Folks,

I'd love a bit of advice. My lowest pintle bolt snapped and the pintle bent:

Of course this took place about 6 seconds after we entered the most narrow channel we have. (seriously!) Luckily my wife was with me for a change and we anchored in time to pull the rudder off. When I got back to the dock, I realized the rudder was fractured under the place where the pintle attaches:

Close up:

The crack goes most of the way through the rudder (about 7/8" if the rudder is 1" thick). My question is, what the heck do I do now? I don't think I can squeeze any epoxy in there... Drill out the old screw holes, epoxy and redrill? Any thoughts on the strength of the rudder after this?

It's and IDA rudder. Also, when I pulled the thing onto the boat, I saw that it was not true. If looking at the back of the boat and the rudder was supposed to be straight, the bottom would be pointing to about 7 o'clock instead of 6.

Obviously gotta get new pintles... any thoughts on what else to do here?

Many thanks.

Mike

Mike Barrowman

Beneteau 311
P/O 1999 Catalina 250WK - #414
Cayman Islands

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2010 : 18:51:54

That rudder is solid HDPE plastic--not something you can "glue" back together with epoxy or anything else. Virtually nothing sticks to it. IMHO, it's toast. This is the risky thing about solid HDPE (like Starboard)--it can simply break. The lower pintle is where the greatest stress occurs in the blade. However, it might be that the breaking of the bolt is what started it, possibly due to over-tighteneing. That, or else the crack in the blade let if flex enough to overstress the pintle and the bolt, causing the bolt to break. One way or the other, the crack in the blade is the beginning of a total break that will occur under stress--just when you really don't need it.

In any case, you could start by contacting IDA. One way or the other, you need a new rudder.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/19/2010 19:05:19

watercayman
1st Mate

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Cayman Islands
49 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2010 : 20:22:44

Shoot. Definitely not what I wanted to hear. Very much appreciate the advice, Dave -- too true about it breaking right when I don't need it to, already had that happen once, don't want that worry on my mind every time I go out. I'll give Ida a call tomorrow and see what they can do.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 06:54:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by watercayman
 Shoot. Definitely not what I wanted to hear...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's what curmudgeons do.

My preference in rudders is the foam-cored fiberglass balanced version CD sells--it was the original equipment starting around 1988. I just don't trust solid HDPE for that kind of application--it seems too likely to just "snap" from stresses when heeled in big chop.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/20/2010 07:02:14

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 13:36:22

Shortly after my depth finder stopped working Saturday we hit a rock with the centerboard and IDA rudder[go figure]. The shear pin broke, rudder was up 90 degrees behind the boat. Could not sail so we were able to motor back to the dock, much less pressure on the tiller with both of us setting on the starboard settee. Could not get spare pin installed with rudder still in water. Part of shear pin was still in the rudder, had to take rudder out and punch broken piece of shear pin out. Believe centerboard is OK. Haul out in two weeks. Info for anyone with an IDA rudder.

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willyd103
1st Mate

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USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 14:29:05

Whew! Somebody was moving fast to the anchor locker! Now you got me wondering. How can I tell if I've got an IDA rudder?
-Will
S/V Stardust
1996 C-250 #215

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2010 : 14:57:57

Couldn't change it out on the lake, water 62 and a light chop bobbing the boat and unsecured part of rudder up and down. IDA rudder very heavy and close to six feet long and covered with Algae.
There's nothing wrong with the IDA rudder it did what it's suppose to do. Had it seven years with no other issuesl

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ed_spengeman
1st Mate

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USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2010 : 10:34:26

I broke my Ida in the middle of lake Michigan. They replaced it free. Guaranteed for life.

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watercayman
1st Mate

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Cayman Islands
49 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2010 : 13:55:11

Thanks Ed, I thought I remembered reading about your story here. I've contacted Ida and will work with them next week for a solution. I'm hopeful they will honor that guarantee. I'll update here once sorted.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2010 : 16:24:39

If Ida doesn't honor a guarantee, I'd take a different tack than my good friend Dave who I go way back with. I think the rudder can be made serviceable.

To do so, I'd fabricate two plates from stainless materiel perhaps .060-.080 thick and around 8x8 inches. Needed is to get four mounting bolts for the two plates each side of the rudder well away from the pintle mounting holes.

I believe the effect would be stronger than the Ida original.

Edited by - on

watercayman
1st Mate

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Cayman Islands
49 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2010 : 09:06:32

Thanks Arlyn, an idea like this crossed my mind too. I've spoken with the company president who is on vacation and will work with me once back in the office next week. He seemed quite reasonable via email so far. I'm hopeful for a good outcome and will update here once it's all done.

I was right on target for 1000 miles under my keel in 2010... oh well... but, the weather is pretty bad here this week and probably next too, so maybe I didn't miss much sailing!

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2010 : 09:10:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 ...I'd fabricate two plates from stainless materiel perhaps .060-.080 thick and around 8x8 inches. Needed is to get four mounting bolts for the two plates each side of the rudder well away from the pintle mounting holes.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My concern comes partly from reading warnings from King Plastics regarding their Starboard product--that it's not intended to provide structural strength. Stainless steel bends with relatively steady resistance, while HDPE provides very high resistance until it SNAPS, virtually without bending. A very slight bend in the stainless at that weakened point could allow the blade to snap.

That pintle in the picture is probably .125" or thicker. Granted it's narrower than 8", but it bent like a NY pretzel. I'm thinking the way the pintle opened up (due to the broken bolt) suddenly removed the stress from that point on the blade before it could break clean off. Then, if a break had occurred, it would've been at the upper pintle. Larger stainless plates might keep it from floating away after a break, but I'm not confident they will prevent the break--especially when it's already started, creating a weak point that cannot be repaired.

As I said, I'm not a fan of HDPE for that application (except maybe on small lakes), but I'm even less of a fan of broken rudders and out-of-control sailboats.

Curmudgeon out and standing by on 9, 1-3, and 1-6.

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