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Selling my C-25 involuntarily

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/02/2010 : 08:06:50

My wife (who initially claimed to love the idea of a sailboat) absolutely hates sailing. Last night's argument was pretty vicious and intense: she has intentionally kept us from going out the past few weekends.

And since Novia is too big for me to single-handle, I'm faced with the choice of keeping her as my personal albatross or passing her to somebody who will appreciate her.

The specs:
<ul><li>1979 Catalina C-25 fixed keel</li><li>Regular mainsail and racing mainsail</li><li>Two headsails: 110 jib and 135 genoa</li><li>Cushions are in bad shape and will need repair or replacement. I've purchased new fabric and foam which I will include.</li><li>1994 5 HP Mercury outboard </li></ul>

Asking price is $5000 but for this association I'll certainly deal.

Some photos at http://www.warrengallery.com/sailing/novia.html

Howard Warren
Little Rock, AR
1979 C-25 #1435, "Novia"

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2010 : 09:12:01

Howard!! After (not quite) two months??

OK, take three deep breaths and then sit down...

First, "vicious and intense" is not allowed in regard to sailboats. Period. It takes two to tango, and I think you may have tangoed a little too far, too fast.

Second, many of us have faced the "queasy Admiral" syndrome and then seen it turn completely around. There are many past threads on the subject, and the common realization is that if she learns to sail with somebody else (NOT YOU) as a teacher, preferably a qualified instructor and preferably on a smaller boat where she can really "get" the "tipping" part and how to control it, the "argument" might turn to who gets to be skipper. My Admiral loved to heel and go--after she learned to handle a Sunfish.

Third, you can easily single-hand a C-25 in light to moderate conditions, particularly with a roller furler, if you want to. Or you can find a friend to mind the tiller while you're attending to things... Or you can just have a peaceful place on the lake to "mess about in" (borrowing a famous phrase). I wasn't interested in single-handing--part of the reason for my change after being widowed... So I'm not that partisan here--I just want everyone to be happy.

So, how about a moratorium... a few days--or months... I recall you analyzed your purchase long and hard--how about a little more "cool" analysis.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/02/2010 09:16:22

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2010 : 09:42:52

With respect Dave, she's not going to budge. We DID take the ASA Basic class from a qualified instructor. She has simply drawn a line in the sand and will not budge. I've known her for 25 years, and I recognize the attitude. She is coming up with excuses of course... not a one of which involves motion sickness...

The sailboat was a romantic dream of mine, where I envisioned her smiling and relaxing during a cruise. But since she has said "no", it will never happen.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2010 : 09:59:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 With respect Dave, she's not going to budge. We DID take the ASA Basic class from a qualified instructor. She has simply drawn a line in the sand and will not budge. I've known her for 25 years, and I recognize the attitude. She is coming up with excuses of course... not a one of which involves motion sickness...

The sailboat was a romantic dream of mine, where I envisioned her smiling and relaxing during a cruise. But since she has said "no", it will never happen.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a friend with a wife like that too, so him and I go out sailing at least once a week, either on his C-27 or my C-25. Basically, he has it set up where Friday nights are sailing nights, up through Saturday afternoon. We also race his boat on Wednesdays, but now the season is over. But I don't think his wife knows that.

If you get some kind of tiller tamer you'll find that your C-25 amazingly easy to single hand in light to moderate winds as well. Just recently I've been getting into this.

I had some issue when I was a new skipper where I would "bark" at my other half, which totally took the fun out of it for her. If you've been like this, throw yourself on the sword with her and change this behavior, have her give you another chance. That's what I did, and it worked. She doesn't go out all the time with me, but enough. Plus, she recognizes that Friday nights are sailing nights!

Buy her the head she wanted. (This was you, right?)

Good luck, hope you keep your boat.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4322 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2010 : 11:00:20

Did she find those pictures of your dockmates wife!

Maybe you could go sailing with them?

Maybe some of the others suggestions above would help soften that line in the sand? If not, would she compromise and agree to let you keep the boat without holding it against you?

Maybe you could negotiate a deal where in she gets a new car or other item she's always wanted and you get to keep the boat?

As for singlehanding, I never have crew and have singlehanded on Galveston Bay in 15 knot winds with gusts to 20. It's not much fun but is definitely doable. In less wind 10-12 knots it's very easy to do and really a blast. Since your new at sailing start out when the winds are light until you get comfortable then slowly work you way up into slightly higher winds. I can promise you will scare the heck out of yourself once or twice but you will grow as a sailor and find out how stable the C25 is and how much she (the boat) can take.

We all hope you can work things out. Just remember, a boat is not worth losing 25 years of marriage.

Edited by - GaryB on 11/02/2010 11:14:05

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 06:39:59

Your priorities are right. A boat should not come between husband and wife. However, one of the great advantages of the C-25 is how easy it is to single-hand. In fact, that's the very reason I chose this boat! I had grown sick of unreliable crew for my Hobie. So consider the option of keeping the wife AND the boat. I hate to see you give up the dream, man!

Edited by - windsong on 11/03/2010 06:45:48

NoSoyMarinero
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 06:53:11

I have a sailboat for sale....if it doesn't sale. i would like to collect insurance on it...see here's my plan .. We Place this gentlemans wife on the boat...sink it ........Then we'll have 2 happy guys in this world.
Actually a boat isn't worth giving up 25 years man....unless she thinks its worth it. Then if that's the case...you don't have much in common anyways!
FOR SALE: 1986 Catalina fixed keel http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/boa/2032114359.html

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:51:32

Can you get her to agree to disagree? My wife has spent half dozen nights on the boat in 15 years. She does not like sailing or the water, but when I want to go she says okay.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4322 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 15:29:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by At Ease
 Can you get her to agree to disagree? My wife has spent half dozen nights on the boat in 15 years. She does not like sailing or the water, but when I want to go she says okay.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The first time I showed my wife the boat before I bought it she stepped off the deck and missed the dock and went straight to the bottom. Lucky for me she came up laughing and still gave me the OK to buy the boat. I'm a lucky man!

My wife's never spent the night on the boat either but has sailed with me 8 or 10 times over the past three years. When she does go she mainly goes because she gets to go out to eat at the Kemah Boardwalk (small bribe).

When I want to go sailing she always says go for it and to be careful!

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 09:21:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 

And since Novia is too big for me to single-handle,

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I sailed and even raced my Hunter 34' alone at times.

Find someone to sail with you. Ask some of your wife's girlfriends. I'll bet she comes around then.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 11:00:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 ...Ask some of your wife's girlfriends...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Man, you really know how to restore the love!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 11:18:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 

And since Novia is too big for me to single-handle,

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I sailed and even raced my Hunter 34' alone at times.

Find someone to sail with you. Ask some of your wife's girlfriends. I'll bet she comes around then.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 13:14:37

We all hope you can work out a solution to keep the boat and find a way to enjoy sailing. If she simply doesn't like being on the water, you'll need to find other fun things to do together, and maybe she'll be okay with you making sailing a "guy" thing. It's not hard to single hand a C-25. Find someone else, with sailing experience, to go out with you to coach you through handling it solo while you do all the tasks.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1815 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 18:36:44

Sometimes you need to lose the battle to win the war. Sell the C25 then wait a bit and find a boat you can handle on your own and start the dream over on a scaled down hull. You may find that she comes around and she gets "three foot itis" -- or you will still have a great activity to enjoy on a scale you are comfortable with!

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 20:09:46

In other words, no-one here is going to buy this boat - not from this forum at least, so really explain to the swmbo with the weather, the end of the season and the bad economy try as you might, you're just unable to sell it for what you paid for it! Can't blame you for trying to keep your head above water on the transaction!

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3478 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 05:08:53

Big whoop.... There are plenty of things to do in the world besides sailing. I can't tell u how much I enjoy biking and running.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 07:47:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 In other words, no-one here is going to buy this boat - not from this forum at least, so really explain to the swmbo with the weather, the end of the season and the bad economy try as you might, you're just unable to sell it for what you paid for it! Can't blame you for trying to keep your head above water on the transaction!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is great.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Big whoop.... There are plenty of things to do in the world besides sailing. I can't tell u how much I enjoy biking and running.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I tried both of those activities but the ice cubes kept flying out of my cocktail glass.

Edited by - PCP777 on 11/05/2010 09:59:55

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 08:02:57

Howard - you'll easily pick up single handing, don't let that stop you from keeping the boat.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4040 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 09:28:42

Howard, You and your wife didn't give sailing much of a chance having only had the boat for a few months. You said that you have 2 sons, What about them? Take it from me, Three years ago I didn't know how to sail and the first year I scared the crap out of my wife only because I didn't know what I was doing. I think she didn't feel safe so because of this I made it a mission to learn as fast as I could or I would end up in the same situation. For her to be confident and relaxed,I had to be the same. This was my 3rd season of sailing and she is a different woman who now totally enjoys the boat because she has confidence in me and that's what turned her around. Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8t3IzezWY You would never think that this was the same woman who 3yrs ago would cling to the winch with white knuckles thinking she was just about to die. Keep the boat, Never yell or argue. It's suppose to be fun.

Edited by - islander on 11/05/2010 09:37:24

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 10:09:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Howard, You and your wife didn't give sailing much of a chance having only had the boat for a few months. You said that you have 2 sons, What about them? Take it from me, Three years ago I didn't know how to sail and the first year I scared the crap out of my wife only because I didn't know what I was doing. I think she didn't feel safe so because of this I made it a mission to learn as fast as I could or I would end up in the same situation. For her to be confident and relaxed,I had to be the same. This was my 3rd season of sailing and she is a different woman who now totally enjoys the boat because she has confidence in me and that's what turned her around. Look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8t3IzezWY You would never think that this was the same woman who 3yrs ago would cling to the winch with white knuckles thinking she was just about to die. Keep the boat, Never yell or argue. It's suppose to be fun.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was guilty of this as well and it got to the point where she would get so stressed out it took all the fun out. Even today, as we plan a sail for today after work, she reminded me that she doesn't want to deal with that. I told her that she could totally relax and chill out, that I would single hand the boat. The "date" is on! Hardly wait to get out of here.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 12:42:50

If you do decide to sell then I'd suggest you start a new thread. This has become more of a therapy thread.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 11/05/2010 12:44:31

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 14:44:03

The root of the problem is not the Captain's ability to sail. It is the First Mate who is afraid. Sailing is new territory to her- never mastered and misunderstood. First Mate would feel more comfortable if she gave herself the opportunity of learning sailing and navigation. She fears the unknown and cannot predict what to do next. She feels too vulnerable in her own skin. Yet First Mate is good at being a wife and mother. She should be the author of her sailing education. If she wants to, she will learn how to empower herself in a fearful situation. And the two of you can enjoy the boat.
First Mate of JD

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2010 : 08:22:54

SWMBO and I have a similar arrangement to Slingerland. She taggeed along through the purchase phase, took the CYA cruising certification and got the boater's card. She balked a little when we got the boat, went out once or twice early in our onership when I, admittedly, was sailing in weather beyond my abilities.

I was impressed with what the boat could get us through despite my errors, she was scared schnytless. After that SWMBO would get on the boat guardedly on the rare occassion when the wind was too weak to blow the ripples around.

We had many long discussions on the need for the boat in our lives and I went as far as to list it (overpriced) to bring her back to earth.

Now that she sees no one is interested in buying a 30 year old relic of a boat and we are stuck with it no matter what she has resigned herself to boat ownership. Last summer we took the boat on a long motor-cruise up the Trent and into Georgian Bay. She loved that.

When I race, she will drive to the host clubs and lounge around using their facilities, and sleep on the boat. She seems to enjoy that as well. Once or twice this summer she went on easy cruises to the beach for a picnic, or out to watch fireworks.

Folks in our club have tried to talk us into buying a bigger more stable boat that SWMBO could feel more relaxed on, and some have tried to convince me that I should buy something small and fast since I mostly race alone or with Chuck. I think we are doing alright with what we have, but with a third child on the way, things may get cramped in a year or two. Two adults, a teen, and two kids under 8 will be tricky to find accommodations for on our boat. OTOH - two adults fit in the Vee berth, the teen goes in the aft quarter, and a small body on each settee. We may be able to make this work for another 10 years or so...

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2010 : 10:41:54

Yesterday, we (entire family) took Novia back out again. After some long hard discussions... plus the older son being in love with the boat... SWMBO relented to go back out again. This time I rearranged teh responsibilities so that in short, she had nothing much to do.

I'll post the story a bit later. Back at work, swamped.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2010 : 11:23:59

I had a very nice sail with my wife and 3 year old this weekend. We had prepped up the boat to sail Friday after work, had the engine running and all provisions loaded when I noticed a sailboat having trouble in the fairway, he almost hit another boat so I headed up the dock to render assistance when I heard a long skid and then an explosion. You can hear in the background of this video the contents of the trailer cooking off. I-30 was closed for hours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfY4Rhe6ku0

Not wanting to "blacken" my boat or expose my family to whatever was cooking on that trailer5 we shut the engine off and waited for it to die down, which it did hours later, but same with the wind. My friend was trying to get to his boat in our marina and after sitting in traffic for a long time he was turned away by the police. Turned out the best way to get him to his boat was "by sea" so we motored over to the other side of the lake and picked him up at the Flying Saucer. After hanging out and watching "Master And Commander" on his boat and with no wind to speak of we all retired to our boats for the evening.

The next day turned out to be perfect, about 65 to 70 degrees with a 8 to 12 knot wind from the south. Kept everything relaxed and basically treated it like I was single handing. I think everyone enjoyed it. Had humus, wine and crackers and a vegetable tray. Awesome day for sailing, can't believe that we had such a nice day in November. here's Jackson at the helm, what cracks me up, is about a minute in, he gets all concerned about our compass course which is really funny as I never really even look at the compass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1MpVk4Nr0c&feature=player_embedded

Edited by - PCP777 on 11/08/2010 14:00:20

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2010 : 15:18:50

Good job, Jackson! Now, was anybody looking at where the boat was going, or where any other boats were? Just curious...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/08/2010 15:20:12

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