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Halyards to the cockpit

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:57:25

Let's assume for a second that I keep Novia. Let's also assume that I do not have to move in and live onboard her. With this in mind, I need to begin making her more single-handed friendly.

I'm thinking the first step is to run the halyards from the mast back to the cockpit. Has anybody done this? And what method did you use... blocks bolted through the hull? Or swivel blocks attached to the mast?

I like Peregrine's photos in the Tech Tips. In my case, I can't get Novia on the dry to lower her mast, so drilling through the hull may be teh only solution for me.

I would welcome ANY advise, and especially photos and links to suppliers

Howard Warren
Little Rock, AR
1979 C-25 #1435, "Novia"

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:02:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 Let's assume for a second that I keep Novia. Let's also assume that I do not have to move in and live onboard her. With this in mind, I need to begin making her more single-handed friendly.

I'm thinking the first step is to run the halyards from the mast back to the cockpit. Has anybody done this? And what method did you use... blocks bolted through the hull? Or swivel blocks attached to the mast?

I like Peregrine's photos in the Tech Tips. In my case, I can't get Novia on the dry to lower her mast, so drilling through the hull may be teh only solution for me.

I would welcome ANY advise, and especially photos and links to suppliers

.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Forum Member Djdurret just did this on his 79 pop top.

Mine came like with everything running aft.

You can drop your mast in the slip, we did a few months ago. You'll need at least another strong guy. There are some really good recent threads on this. Honestly, I'm not sure if you'll need to drop the mast to do this.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:24:18

Peregrine's set up is the same as ours, except we also have a cabin top winch after the locks

It really makes the setup complete. BUT - I strongly urge you to add lazy jacks. I singlehand 80% of the time and the lazy jacks make all the difference in the world. They might be a bit tough to connect with the mast up (you'll just need a ladder - always fun on a boat) but will be worth all the effort.

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:27:35

Peter, assume that the only assistance I'll have is my 19 year old son. I don't have any of the gear to drop the mast inside the slip, plus the odds of hitting other boats across the walkway is high. The lines are already long enough to reach the cockpit, so it may be best that the mast stays where it is. [ ;) ]

I was thinking about a turning block next to the mast, (photo goes here)

then running through an orgaqnizer like this: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1041&ParentCat=407

and ending up with a rope clutch like this: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=452&ParentCat=40

The question is what type of turning block to install by the mast. My local marina has a halyard block, with four screw mounts to bolt directly through the hull next to the mast. With I could find a photo.)

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:29:24

Jerry, do you have any photos of Whisper, around the mast base? I'm curious about the turning blocks.

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:35:40

Found a photo similar (not exact) to the block my marina has for sale: http://www.mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SCH30040&Category_Code=SCHOVER

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PCP777
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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:53:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 Peter, assume that the only assistance I'll have is my 19 year old son. I don't have any of the gear to drop the mast inside the slip, plus the odds of hitting other boats across the walkway is high. The lines are already long enough to reach the cockpit, so it may be best that the mast stays where it is. [ ;) ]

I was thinking about a turning block next to the mast, (photo goes here)

then running through an orgaqnizer like this: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1041&ParentCat=407

and ending up with a rope clutch like this: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=452&ParentCat=40

The question is what type of turning block to install by the mast. My local marina has a halyard block, with four screw mounts to bolt directly through the hull next to the mast. With I could find a photo.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Exactly, except you might want to get the multiple organizer and clutches. That's what Darren did. If you have the base at the foot of your mast where you can attach the blocks that solves that as well.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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548 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:56:52

Hello all - This topic seems to come up from time to time. It's making me think that it would be a good article for tech tips in next issue, as I have been scouting for something to put in the MAINSHEET that would be appropriate for when the skippers do haulouts this spring. My rig came with the blocks on the roof like in the last post, but I moved everything to the mast with installation of the mast plate. Maybe I got a little carried away, but what I have rigged up works for me as I mostly singlehand. I would like to hear from some of you (with pics too) of how you have run your lines back to cockpit. Then I will try to put something together that shows the various ways to do it. It is good to put some forethought into this kind of project or it can get away from you. HOWARD, read up on ways to drop you mast. It's not that intimidating. I do it in the slip whenever it needs to be done. I like the blocks on the mast plate, it is a more elegant solution.

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:26:56

Paul, at this stage in my learning curve, I use a great deal of caution in attempting things. For example, if I drill a bad hole, I can epoxy it shut. On the other hand, if I drop my mast on top of my neighbor's boat......

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Slingerland
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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:27:42

When I go out to the marina this weekend, I'll shoot some detailed photos of my mast base. Maybe I have the attachments and don't realize it.

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:48:18

Howard - here you go....

Our mast boot does not have the flanges to accept blocks, so the PO installed the 2 blocks (main and jib halyards) through the cabin top, you can also see the deck organizer in the lower right corner.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:48:46

Howard, relax. This isn't that hard even if it all seems overwhelming at once. It's just a matter of putting the right parts in the right place.

So, the first thing to do is learn what the parts are. It's likely you'll need blocks at the base of the mast. Easiest if they're attached to a mast plate. (I'll get to taking the mast down in a minute)

Then, you'll need some turning blocks mounted on the deck. They're usually mounted a few inches outside the corner of the poptop. (This is where you'll have to drill some holes, not the hull. Please never drill through the hull while the boat is in the water.) There are several steps to this drilling process so that you don't have water leaking through the deck and destroying the core. Not difficult, just time consuming. It will take a day or two to complete just the drilling.

Then the lines continue aft to some kind of cleat. Many use a rope clutch since they're a very convenient way to secure a halyard. Mostly a personal preference and cost consideration.

Then, they continue aft to a winch. If you already have coaming winches for the sheets, you can simply remove the winch from the mast and mount it on the deck aft of the cleat/clutch. This is a LITTLE more complicated than it sounds due to the curve of the base for the mast and the curve you'll need to match the deck but, it's not hard to do. Also, more through holes in the deck.

Now, for the real issue. This ain't cheap and you won't re-coup all the costs in re-sale if you choose (are forced) to sell soon. Cleats will be chaper than clutches. I imagine it can be done without the mast plate and regular blocks could be used for turning blocks but would require more work to install.

YOU CAN STILL SINGLEHAND WITHOUT ANY OF THIS.

Now, on to lowering the mast in the water. You'll need to do this to install a mast plate. The equipment you'll need is a couple of 2"x4"s some bolts, and some rope. You have lots of the rope already aboard. Others do it with pipes or poles or etc, etc, but a simple a-frame is safe, cheap and effective.

Does anybody remember the link to the You Tube videos somebody made clearly demonstrating the process? Howard, you'll be amazed at how simple it is.

Good luck, man. Don't blow your marriage over a toy but, don't give up until you have to.

Edited by - John Russell on 11/03/2010 14:51:18

John Russell
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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:54:19

One more thing, if you're going to do all this, install a jiffy reef system as well. That's another thread but it simply involves some line, more blocks and a 3 line clutch rather than a 2 line.

And the idea about lazy jacks is a good one even if you're not singlehanding.

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 14:56:50

Jerry, do you have a higher-res version of this photo? If you do, you're welcome to email it to me at slingerland79 at yahoo dot com. I'm trying to see how the blocks are attached to the top. Thanks!

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JohnP
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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 17:13:11

My boat came with halyards led back to the cockpit and there is a mast plate with spots for attachment of 6 items.

Recently I replaced a (single-line) turning block for the jib halyard on the port side of the pop-top with a triple-line deck organizer on the port side. So for that I had to fill in 2 old holes with epoxy and then drill/fill/drill 2 new holes through the deck. This was done because I chose to lead the jiffy reefing line from the base of the mast back to the cockpit (after hearing about it for years here on this Forum. Now the jib halyard and jiffy reefing line both run through the deck organizer.

I installed a cam cleat on the cabin top for the reefing line.

As said above, you don't need a mast plate to add blocks to the base of the mast, but it's neater and more adaptable for other modifications later. A "stand-up block" with a spring is all you need for each halyard. This is a nice Harken block:

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 19:43:12

Howard,

I highly recommend installing the mast plate rather than using the standing blocks. As John already noted, the mast plate offers a great deal of flexibility and it is easy to install (once the mast is down). Do whatever you have to do to lower the mast and install a mast plate. While the mast is down, check/replace the sheaves, anchor light, spreaders, spreader tips and bases, running and standing rigging. You can install the mast plate in fifteen minutes. A few blocks, a deck organizer and a dual <s>cam cleat</s> rope clutch, and you are in business to single hand. I did all these mods on my boat two years ago and consider it one of the more important upgrades I've done. I have the main halyard and single line reefing line run back on the starboard side and a jib halyard and boom vang run aft on the port side. (That's snow, not sand in the photos!)

Edited by - Tom Gauntt on 11/04/2010 05:39:56

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2010 : 22:36:54

You Tube video of mast raising/lowering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

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jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 04:18:40

What has anyone found to be the best way to secure the line in the cockpit? Rope clutches, cam cleats, jam cleats, etc...?

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Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 05:36:31

In my post above, I erroneously said I had my lines runs back to a dual "cam cleat". I guess I had a brain cramp when I wrote that because I actually have the lines run back to dual rope clutches.

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 06:27:22

Best is pretty subjective..all your suggestions work well - it's a matter of the usual suspects; time and money

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 07:07:29

I hope you get to keep your boat.
I have done some mods to my boats. I always walked the slips to look at the solutions other boats had, (racing boats nearly always have the best thought out solutions). I would then design my "upgrade" and then search for the best hardware to accomplish my design goals. Occasionally some hardware would modify my outcome simply because it was too nice to leave out.
Your comments about fear of dropping your mast are unfounded, it is too bad you have not seen it done. The mast goes to the rear, not the front, (it does not require any equipment to do, you just get some help and do it by hand). If that means you need to turn your boat around in the slip then do it. You really need to get to know someone who drops their mast and get up to speed with how trivial it is.
Through-deck turning blocks are a mistake. One of the few areas of concern for deck rot on a Catalina 25 is at the mast base... how smart would it be to put more holes there? A mast plate is the correct solution, it also allows for redesigns at will.
Here is a shot of the one I added to my '82 with external halyards. Note the stacked deck organizers to allow for four lines per side.

Here is a shot of the halyard plate on my '89 with internal halyards, here I opted for a cleaner look and fewer lines led back.

Remember, sailboat ownership is a stewardship, those who own the boat after you are relying on you to do things the very best way possible.
Good luck with the project and enjoy it, remember you will look at your efforts every time you sail.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 07:23:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jhinton
 What has anyone found to be the best way to secure the line in the cockpit? Rope clutches, cam cleats, jam cleats, etc...?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is what I think.
Different lines should be lead to different devices.
Halyards, (and reefing lines), should go to clutches.
Outhauls/downhauls should go to cleats. I prefer clam cleats.
Sail Sheets should go to cleats. I prefer clams here as well but have used cams too. (Selftailers are the work of Satan.)
Main sheets and vangs, (purchases), should go to cam cleats.
Dock lines should go to horn cleats.
I think furling lines should go to jam horn cleats.
All of this is my opinion about lines on a Catalina 25, different size boats have different loads.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 07:31:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mark Maxwell
 You Tube video of mast raising/lowering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY " target="_blank"> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks, Mark.

PAUL (BRITINUSA) Can these be archived in the "General" section of tech tips?

The lowering process.
Stepping the Mast Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

Howard, this one will help with the parts.

Stepping the mast Part Two -- Component Parts Close Up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ&feature=related

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 07:46:56

A winch behind the cutches (or cam cleats) is not really necessary. The main can be "adequately" tensioned by giving it a good pull with the rope clutch set to keep the halyard from slipping back. Same for a hanked-on jib. Racers will disagree... and I'll agree with them for racing. But I've also seen a winch cause a Harken ball-bearing swivel-block to literally explode--spewing little balls all over the boat!

If you have or install a roller furler (a huge feature for single-handing), you don't need to lead the jib halyard back--it can stay on the mast and be tensioned by the winch there. That winch is generally needed to hoist a furling sail onto the furler.

Short of a furler (which is not a trivial expense), you can install what I call a "dousing line" or "douser" for the jib--a thin line that runs from the topmost hank on the jib, down to a block at the bow, and back to the cockpit. When it's time to douse the jib, releasing the halyard will generally let it drop half-way, at which point the wind will tend to keep it from falling further. The douser can then pull it the rest of the way down to the deck and keep the wind from pushing it back up--without you having to go up to the foredeck. Some call it a downhaul--I think of that term for the line that pulls the sliding boom gooseneck down, opposing the force of the halyard.

I had a douser on a different boat, led back to a little cam cleat with a fairlead on top (to keep it in place). My C-25 had a furler--way better than sliced bread!

PS: Jargon check (so you don't confuse John

)...

"Hull" = part of boat that makes it float.
"Cabin" = part that projects above the "deck" so you can walk around (or maybe just sit) down below.
"Deck" = flat area around cabin and cockpit, even with top of hull.
"Cabintop" or "coachroof" = (self-explanatory)
"Coaming" = raised area between cockpit and deck that keeps water running back along the deck from running into the cockpit. Your winches are on wide parts of the coamings sometimes called the "winch islands".

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/04/2010 07:59:13

pastmember
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 07:56:37

[quote]Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 A winch behind the cutches (or cam cleats) is not really necessary. The main can be "adequately" tensioned by giving it a good pull with the rope clutch set to keep the halyard from slipping back. Same for a hanked-on jib. Racers will disagree... and I'll agree with them for racing. But I've also seen a winch cause a Harken ball-bearing swivel-block to literally explode--spewing little balls all over the boat!

Demonstrating that high static loads belong on blocks with bushings rather than bearings.

PS: Jargon check...

"Hull" = part of boat that makes it float.
"Topsides", the part of the hull above the waterline, ending at the hull-deck joint.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 08:24:23

FWIW
I have always thought these videos and descriptions of A-frames, gin poles and other mast handling devices do a grave disservice to newby Catalina 25 owners. These devices are only necessary when extremely short handed and add a complexity that is unwarranted in all but the most solitary of situations. Three good men are preferable to devices every time. Dropping a mast is so easy and such a trivial event that all of this talk about needed equipment misrepresents the reality of owning a Catalina 25 and scares the bejesus out of new owners. I will say that a mast-up is useful in raising a mast on the hard but I never bother with one in the slip.

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