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Propane stove mods out there?

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Scooter
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USA
228 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/15/2010 : 05:53:41

We have been agonizing over moving up or keeping our C25. Our pendulum has swung back to keeping her. One of the things we need to do is come up with a better stove (cooking) solution.

We have the original stove but would rather have propane. We currently use a Coleman propane stove but we have to stow it every time. It's one of those with the small green tanks hanging off with a metal tube. Even if we left it out, the tank would be hanging over the edge and not a very attractive setup. It just wouldn't look right.

My thoughts were to find a propane stove that fits the space and run propane from a main tank such as a grill tank. (I am aware of the safety issues with propane settling into cavities etc...) My thoughts would be to make it so we could simply turn off the tank after each use. This should minimize the chance of leaks settling.

I am wondering what modifications others have done out there? I may be able to configure a setup that will use the small disposable tanks but I prefer to not create disposable waste.

If we go with larger tanks there would be limited space to locate them. I have not researched yet to see if there are smaller "refillable" tanks?

Again, just trying to see what others are doing and maybe get some ideas.

Our goal:

1. Not have to setup/tear down a portable stove.
2. Not have the tank "always" hanging in the middle of the area.

Thoughts?

Scooter
C25 '89 SR/WK #5878 "Square Knot"
Vandemere NC.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2010 : 08:00:18

There was a thread here several ago that referenced the brand and model number of a camp stove that could be cannibalized - that would allow you to convert the original alcohol stove to propane.

Catalina Direct also sells a complete propane unit.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1876&ParentCat=31

Edited by - OJ on 11/15/2010 08:01:39

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2010 : 08:21:32

I like this alternative...

The Kenyon butane stove--shown with carrying case. It's practically free--$32 at Defender--you can't go very wrong. The butane cans are like standard paint cans and install inside the right side--available at every WM, Walmart, etc... Cooks like propane, and tucks away in a jiffy if you want it out of the way, or you could mount it in place--they have a kit for that. If you want two burners, get two! I have a pot holder for mine, as well--I think it cost more than the stove. You should remove the butane can when not using the stove--it snaps out and can go in the rope locker.

If you really want to go to propane, I strongly recommend one of Catalina Direct's kits so you'll have a solenoid-controlled, properly vented system that meets ABYC standards. It's a bit more expensive...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/15/2010 08:26:02

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 11/15/2010 : 09:27:20

I've got one of the butane stoves like Dave's Kenyon and I like it a lot. Mine carries the Burton name, but it is basically the same unit.
I set it on top of the cutting board and use the space under it for storage.

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/15/2010 09:28:34

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5368 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2010 : 13:30:29

I too bought the Burton, and it's excellent as a single burner stove. I generally use it on overnights to make dinner and for eggs, sausages, etc in the morning.

It is the easiest stove I've ever used - you just put in the canister, and push the mounting button for the tank. Then twist the heat setting/piezoelectric igniter and it is cooking. It offers a wide range of cooking power - from a slow simmer to a sizzling frying pan. It's got a nice carrying case, or you can bolt it in.

If you are in the market for two burners, then you may want to look at different alternatives like propane.

I use a different stove for coffee, however. My single burner Coleman white gas stove. Why? My small coffee pot fits right on top and it uses a refillable white gas tank.

The Brunton is for larger pots and pans while the Coleman is for my small campfire coffee pot.

Edited by - Voyager on 11/15/2010 13:31:47

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2010 : 08:10:38

Search "stove" or "oven". There is a stove/oven combo shown which a former member, John Vining, installed in his C25. His was purchased at Cabella's. I crewed his boat in the Cleaveland nationals a few years ago. With very little modification, which is also descibed somewhere in the archives, he ended up with a very functional boat appliance. We had fresh hot muffins every morning.

Edited by - aeckhart on 11/16/2010 08:11:07

redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2010 : 08:38:38

Cook a turkey on the boat... now that would rock!

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 11/16/2010 : 18:40:49

Or at least some frozen turkey in a boil-in bag!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2010 : 22:38:06

I think roasting a pigeon or game hen would be more likely.

Edited by - on

fesman
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2010 : 04:50:13

the previous owner of Ol' Rip fitted in an older coleman 2 burner propane unit. needed a small spacer added to fit tight. the standard propane bottle hangs off the front and can be supported by pulling the drawer out a tad. i occasionally toast a bit of fabric just to maintain the classic burnt curtain vibe.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2010 : 08:27:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fesman
 ...i occasionally toast a bit of fabric just to maintain the classic burnt curtain vibe.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Welcome Les!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/17/2010 08:28:28

redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2010 : 10:37:35

Now that's the kind of humor I expect from sailors.. Welcome... I remove my curtains, just to cut down on the hazard. I'd probably have them burned up after the second meal.

Edited by - on

hillerji
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2010 : 15:24:45

How about a gull with all the fixin's ?

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2010 : 10:41:39

Scooter,
I had the same challenge and I am a person who believes in propane and am not afraid of it when used with some common sense. As to the stove itself, I followed a thread in this forum on converting the existing alcohol stove to propane. Essentially you rip out all of the alcohol parts and replace them with inexpensive camp stove burners of the kind that screw directly onto a propane bottle. This set up has worked out to be OK but it does have its limitations and I am presently looking for a better type of burner.
As to mounting a propane tank the attached pictures show my setup. You can get small propane bottles (I think mine is about 2 gallons) that are refillable just like 5 and 10 gallon bottles at propane stores and Lowes, etc. My small bottle lasts me pretty much the whole season. It is important that the propane hose you select to go from your tank location to your stove is a single length without any connections in between. For my location I believe I got a 15 foot hose. The other connections are readily available from propane dealers and hardware stores.
But here is a consideration. You will notice that there is a regulator at the tank in my setup picture. However, in reality, after this picture was taken, i had to remove the regulator. This is because of the type of burner or jetting in the stove itself. By using the camp stove type burner that attaches directly to a tank the stove effectively works at high pressure. Other stove burners are jetted to work at low pressure. If you use this high pressure type burner you will have high pressure in this hose between the tank and the stove. A low pressure stove will allow you to put a regulator at the bottle and thus low pressure in the line. You can add to this system a solenoid shut off valve at the bottle and then be just like the big boys or you can use your common sense and manually turn off the gas at the bottle when not in use.

The base for the tank holder is made out of corean scrap, an aluminum angle and some U bolts. The strap on top is 1/2" flex copper tubing and copper fittings.

The hose is routed through the transom, under the quarter birth and around the cabinet under the sink and then out a hole behind the stove. Holes should be padded so as not to upbraid the hose against the sharp fiberglass. Leave a little extra hose to allow the stove to gimbal.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2010 : 11:59:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 ...I am a person who believes in propane and am not afraid of it when used with some common sense...

...i had to remove the regulator... By using the camp stove type burner that attaches directly to a tank the stove effectively works at high pressure... If you use this high pressure type burner you will have high pressure in this hose between the tank and the stove...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The first sentence above conflicts with the others. The vapor pressure of propane at 70 deg. F is over 100 psi and at 90, it's 150 psi... not something you should be running in a hose through a boat.

Curmudgeon out.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/19/2010 12:33:36

Scooter
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2010 : 14:51:50

This last modification is more like what we're thinking but....

1. We want the tank internal. We're near the coast and salty air can be an issue. I was thinking about enlarging the small compartment in front of the motor mount (Starboard aft). Didn't know htere was 2 smaller 2 gal version. I'll have to look at the tank sizes locally. We don't use the aft birth except for storage. I could make it have a drain for fumes. We probably won't do that but it's an option. Too much work.

2. I like the idea of modifying our existing stove. It would fit the space. Hadn't thought of that.

3. We didn't want to use disposable propane tanks but that might be what we have to do to find a "safe" place for the tank????

Steve, Where did you get the long gas hose? It couldn't have been cheap?

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2010 : 13:16:13

I got my hose from my local farm and ranch store (I live out in the country) It wasn't very expensive. I would talk with my local propane dealer for parts you need.

Edited by - on

larry drake
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 06:29:08

stove

Edited by - on

larry drake
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 06:32:43

I just removed a Princess butane 1 Burner Built-in Stove from my C250. If anyone is interested in it I would make them a great deal.
Only used it once in two years, looks almost new. Email me for additional information and pictures.
Cordially,
Larry Drake
larry.skipper@gmail.com

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 07:09:28

Scooter - An internal tank is really not a good idea. If you want to go that route there are many concerns. I don't believe an encclosed tank meets ABYC (or whatever it is) regulations, and you should check to be sure you aren't voiding your insurance by doing it.

In an enclosed (or even mostly enclosed) space, the propane that the tank off-gasses will build up and the risk of it igniting is, well, dangerous. Think of lighting your BBQ without opening the lid. Now make a BBQ out of easy-to-burn fibreglass resin and see how well it stands up after the initial boom.

I have less of an issue with the externall mounted tank, however; even that scenario is less than perfect. A member of my club has that sort of a setup on a HInterhoeller 28. In a recent race a crossing didn't quite work out and a line was sheared from the tank by the bow of the at-fault vessel. How much hissing propane do you want being blown back into the boat when a line lets go? This doesn't have to be due to being hit - a poor connection at the tank or a leak in a hose will be adequate on a still day.

If you do go for the externally mounted tank, be sure that all your fittings are properly done and that you have it inspected at a yard, once again, for insurance. These installations aren't for amatuers, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

On Iris we carry a couple of small propane cannisters for a coleman stove in the same cockpit locker you are talking about (STBD AFT) and find that a single cannister is more than enough for our family of 4 on a long weekend.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 07:55:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...If you do go for the externally mounted tank, be sure that all your fittings are properly done and that you have it inspected at a yard, once again, for insurance. These installations aren't for amatuers, and shouldn't be taken lightly...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...and be sure to use a regulator at the tank. If you want to talk about "hissing", just try listening to propane blowing out of a tank without a regulator--it's like a jet engine--even without any ignition. With ignition, it's death.

Larry's system could be a good solution... The Catalina 250 installation includes (or included) a thermal sensor on the stove, wired to a solenoid to shut off the gas at the tank. So if a puff of wind blows out the flame, you don't fill the cabin with propane gas. I believe this is now required for ABYC certification.

I still like my Kenyon (aka Burton) stove.

Edited by - on

Scooter
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 09:00:03

All very good points. Thanks.

For clarification, when I said "Internal" I was thinking of creating a dedicated Propane locker. Let me try to explain. Before I do though, I want to make clear this was not a serious option. Too much work and too drastic a change to the boat for re-sale etc....

I had this wild idea to use the small compartment in the starboard aft portion of the cockpit. If you enlarged it "down" into the aft birth and enclosed it in within the aft birth "WITH A VENT" out the back like the cockpit scuppers you should be able to meet any ABYC requirements?? This would require too much research into regulations etc... Is the "vent" too close the the motor? for example???

Again this was just thinking outside the box (pun intended). I NEVER really wanted to go through all that trouble. Most likely we will continue to use the small canisters. I haven't really checked into it yet but I'm told you can't get them re-filled. I'm trying to reduce what goes into landfills. Plus usually you have to dispose of propane canisters at proper facilities etc... We may try to find a way to use a long hose and locate the canister someplace less "in the way" but then you lose some gas in the longer hose line... The wife just wants to NOT have to setup and tear down the stove for each use. AND we want propane. 2 burners are best but I will be showing her some of the single propane burners. Butane is not our prime choice.

NOTE: One thing most people don't think of is where they store these small canisters. I have seen some of them not re-seal well and leak just sitting there. If they are stored in an enclosed compartment then you have the same issues with heavier than air gas.

Again, thanks for all the comments. All forum comments are valued very much.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 10:09:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I haven't really checked into it yet but I'm told you can't get them re-filled<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am fairly certain you can refill your small propane bottles from a regular propane tank. There is an adapter available. Sorry, I have never personally used one. But, I think I noticed the adapter at Ace Hardware.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 16:29:22

DavyJ on some hiking/canoeing forums folks have talked about this. It can be done, but is a bit dicey. You have to go lightly.

Skrenz - yes in the issues with storing the propane in an enclosed space. The ideal storage facility IMHO is the 4" ABS pipe attached at a convenient Stanction. Put a bolt across the bottom and you have an instant cylinder holster. Our prcatice of storing teh propane in the locker I feel comfortable with, but as you pointed out it is no better than your idea of storing the gas in an enclosed locker. Our only advantage is that the locker doesn't seal, allowing any errant gas to vent out of the space.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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836 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 17:58:28

Scooter, before committing to a significant project, it would be worth your time to revisit Dave B's suggestion. We bought a Kenyon a couple of summers ago and can verify it is incredibly easy to use, instant on, and much hotter than our original alcohol stove (read less wait time for that morning coffee). It's also easy to store under the cutting board with or w/out its case and still have room for other kitchen items. They may not be designed to prepare major meals on but they are handy...we used ours in combination with the "Q" for nearly two weeks this summer while waiting for a new kitchen range. The fuel is probably more expensive than propane but for morning coffee and a light dinner, a couple of cannisters would last the summer.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 11/24/2010 : 20:33:09

Regarding refilling small tanks from a big one, I'd be very concerned about over filling the small tank, and building up way too much pressure in the tank. With two unregulated tanks transferring at high pressure, bad things could potentially happen.
And you might get lucky doing it several times without incident, but sooner or later, if you're on the edge, (as Scotty says) "she can't hold out very much longer, and she's gunna blow Captain".

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