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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Just picked up my new to me Catalina 25 questions

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whitlecj
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:21:20

Just picked up my boat today. She is an 85 and is in awesome shape. Very excited. One quick question as I am a relatively new sailor. At the jib winches near the cockpit, there are no cam cleats. Instead the boat has a mooring cleat at the winches. Is this normal for a catalina and do mooring cleats work well here? I am used to to cam cleats in this location. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2010 : 18:54:17

I use the horn cleats with a half turn and locking hitch, but some do to add cam or jam cleats for the sheets.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2010 : 19:01:48

Mine came with the same set up. I added jam cleats on risers. I have some cam cleats, but never put them on. It's an easy job. Mine are placed with the screws over the cockpit cubbies so a backing plate and nuts were no problem. I made the risers out of some scrap moraine. Traced the cleat over the mahogany and put the block on the boat so I could get the proper height and angle. Then cut the angle so it would slope down a little. Some varnish and your good to go.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2010 : 20:15:50

I use the horn cleats. I like them. They are also what I learned with, so maybe a little different there.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 12/05/2010 : 20:44:59

They all started out with just the horn cleats. I added cams, and instead of putting them on risers (so the angle from the winch wouldn't lift the sheet out), I positioned them so after trimming, I could flip the sheet under one horn of the cleat and then snap it into the cam. So the horn leads the sheet level to the cam. You can sorta see the arrangement here...

Note: The cam cleat with fairlead forward of the port winch is for my furling line. Also, not knowing what boats you sailed where you were used to cam cleats for the jib, be aware that the bigger the jig/genoa, the more it will tend to lock into a cam cleat to the point that releasing it can be difficult. I suspected the half turn around the horn helped mitigate that somewhat, but it could still become pretty tight. I also chose cams with jaws that were rounded toward the tops (Ronstan, I think).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/05/2010 20:58:08

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 04:30:21

I use clam cleats.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 05:10:35

I used clam cleats on my C25, but if I had a boat with only horn cleats on it, I'd replace the horn cleats with jam cleats the same size, before deciding whether to install any additional cleats. Depending on how you use the boat, you might find jam cleats alone to be adequate. If so, you'll avoid drilling holes needlessly.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 12/06/2010 05:17:00

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 05:28:28

Yepper .. that's what I did, removed the horn cleats and replaced them with clam cleats. Works great. Forgive me for not being more specific, coffee has not gotten to the brain.

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Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 05:51:39

I installed cam cleats on risers. I positioned them pointing more towards the center of the boat off the winches so that the crew could handle them also. I suggest running the lines through the winches to get a better idea of the angle and location. Keep in mind that the sheet comes off aft on one side and forward on the other. Almost made that mistake.

Also, the risers allow you to put two wraps on the winch without causing it to overlap.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 05:51:53

OK...

This is what Mine looked like when I got the boat. The horn cleat had been ripped out. It had probably been used as a docking line with a short line. Anyhoo, underneath there are some wood plates that you drop to get the the underside of the screws that hold the horn cleats, and remove the horn cleats and duct tape up the holes from the bottom. Sand down and fill the holes with resin from the top. ( or use marine tex epoxy ) but the marine tex does not sand well, as it is very hard.

I have used one of the "putty" types of epoxy to fill the hole and push it down to plug it, and then after it cures add "regular" epoxy with white pigment to "top"it off and then sand. I've also just added several layers of epoxy until it fills up the hole.

Drill two holes for the clam cleats, and over drill the holes, fill with epoxy, and drill again with the correct size and bed the clam cleats with boat life caulk. Polysulfide. This way water will not get into the deck.

Line up the clam cleats with the winches so the lines come off the winch and lay on the clam cleat in a straight line.

Edited by - on

whitlecj
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 06:35:47

Thanks for all the responses guys. I am going to sail it a while and with horn cleats and see if i can get used to it, if not, I will look at changing it out. Totally different boat so I am sure it will take a while to get adjusted. Thanks.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 07:30:34

I'm not certain what Ray is agreeing with above... I believe the "jam" cleats Steve is referring to are like horn cleats, but with a sort of V on one side, like this...

One wrap around the base will allow the tension to "jam" the sheet into the V. No locking turn is needed, and it's quick and easy to release. You need to be sure to get the right size cleat for your sheets as well as (hopefully) to align the holes.

A "clam" cleat is like the following...

I'm not a fan of clams for sheets--they need a "forward" tug (toward the winch) to set the line securely, and it would seem too easy to pop a sheet out in a busy cockpit, causing some unexpected excitement if the wind is up. But that's just my opinion. Clams also have a sinister way of grabbing lines just when you don't want them too, such as when tacking and you want the new windward sheet to run free...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/06/2010 07:31:51

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 07:53:45

I use my original, stock horn cleats sort of like a jam cleat. With the appropriate amount of wraps on the winch, I put three round turns (no crossovers or hitches) on the horn cleat then tug. The sheet locks in enough to hold it no matter the conditions and in nine years, I can't recall the sheet ever coming loose or jamming. To release, simply unwind the sheet from the cleat as you would spin it from a winch.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 08:03:11

Don! Long time no hear!

Bamboo came with jam cleats that I have used much the same way as Don and then I recently put some cam cleats on. Didn't get risers though and now wish I did so will get some, 1/2 to 1 inch.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 10:14:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 I use my original, stock horn cleats sort of like a jam cleat. With the appropriate amount of wraps on the winch, I put three round turns (no crossovers or hitches) on the horn cleat then tug. The sheet locks in enough to hold it no matter the conditions and in nine years, I can't recall the sheet ever coming loose or jamming. To release, simply unwind the sheet from the cleat as you would spin it from a winch.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Same here Don. 20+ yrs and never had one slip or (more importantly) jamb under any conditions. It's quick, easy, inexpensive and no moving parts to fail.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 10:17:10

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 12:49:54

seems the horn cleat team is reporting in...us too...just a few wraps and it's never slipped...we also like having another set of horn cleats for when tieing up at a transient dock and/or when doubling up dock lines for storm prep...

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 20:25:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 seems the horn cleat team is reporting in...us too...just a few wraps and it's never slipped...we also like having another set of horn cleats for when tieing up at a transient dock and/or when doubling up dock lines for storm prep...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Funny but we rarely use those horns to tie up. We will put 2 lines at teh bow (spring and dock) and a dock line from the stern cleat. If I decide to go whole hog and put in a second spring line, Its usually a bowline over the winch itself. The tail gets run aft to the dock cleat/bollard and the running end goes forward to a second dock cleat/bollard. I usually only do this in a transient location though.

We also do the "round turn and a jam" as our cleating technique when sailing

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2010 : 21:18:34

Dave,
My mistake, I meant clam cleat. I do have the cam cleat to put on, but the clam's have been good for me. Except for one of my sets of jib sheets that are a bit large for the cleat. Releasing them has never been a hassle.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2010 : 07:21:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Funny but we rarely use those horns to tie up. We will put 2 lines at the bow (spring and dock) and a dock line from the stern cleat. If I decide to go whole hog and put in a second spring line, Its usually a bowline over the winch itself.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Be careful when using a winch to tie up, especially the stock Lewmars, as they have a nylon stem that can break. I know of at least three boats in my marina that this has happened to (including me

). The winch stems are particularly vulnerable if the force exerted on the winch is above horizontal as what usually happens is the drum pushes upwards on the key snapping off the relatively thin top part of the stem. If the line leading to the winch is below horizontal, this is less an issue, but for securing your boat, you are better off using a throughbolted cleat...Just my two cents learned from my two hundred dollar winch which is now sitting somewhere in the muck below my slip.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2010 : 07:31:07

Thank's Don.. That is a good heads up. I've been using mine and I'll cut that out.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2010 : 07:55:04

Hmmm... Good tip. And remember that the coaming and therefore the winch is tipped outward, so "horizontal" to the dock could be "upward" to the winch.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/07/2010 07:55:38

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2010 : 08:12:29

Also, I remember reading somewhere that leaving dock lines attached to the winch, in docks that are subject to surge or lots of movement from wind or waves can damage the winch pawls.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2010 : 08:23:23

Using a horn or jam cleat to tie off your jib sheet is fine but when you're in light air or wing on wing without a whisker and multiple quick adjustments are necessary that cam is really nice to have.

I've been using my winch for the spring line and will also take Don's advice and stop ......

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2010 : 19:12:26

My winch cleats work great, like a modified base with cam (?) cleats.

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2010 : 22:02:25

Got self tailing lewmars for the jib sheets. Blush!

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