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Going up the mast...advice?

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2010 : 20:14:43

Wow this thread has gotten almost as fun as the annual "how do I pull my boat with a Jeep Cherokee" thread.

So for all concerned, if you are a risktaker, and a lightweight, and see your life as but the flicker of a dying flame, going up the mast is for you.

If you are safety-conscious, and a heavyweight, and see your life as being of great value to both yourself and the world, then lower your mast.

If you are indecisive and can't make up your mind, then sail under a low bridge, rip all instrumentation off the masthead on a low girder and be done with the whole dilemma.

While I have used all 3 approaches, the third option was most effective in eliminating future woes caused by masthead instrumentation.

Edited for bed typing.

Edited by - Prospector on 12/14/2010 11:14:50

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2010 : 21:45:17

Sage, Chris, Sage.

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 08:07:40

Topics like, going aloft, size of tow vehicle, how to lower the mast, dock with keel up or down, minimum outboard HP, etc. are about safety. Either for the person or the boat. They have been discussed on this board many,many,many times. I would always encourage these questions. Whether your a member or not, with 2 posts or 2000.

I've been on forums that have answered similar 'noob' questions with "use the forum search, this topic has already been discussed"
For the most part, that doesn't happen here. While we do have a search feature, rich with advise, I support new posts on old topics.

Edited by - Mark Maxwell on 12/14/2010 08:09:29

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 08:37:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mark Maxwell
 ...I support new posts on old topics.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/14/2010 08:39:04

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4029 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 10:23:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've been on forums that have answered similar 'noob' questions with "use the forum search, this topic has already been discussed"
For the most part, that doesn't happen here. While we do have a search feature, rich with advise, I support new posts on old topics<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree, Who here never watched a movie twice.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 11:00:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mark Maxwell
 ...I support new posts on old topics.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Right on! It stirs up participation, reminds people of important issues, and invites new voices into the discussions. On the flip side, "Search" will turn up some sage advice from people no longer active here... It's all good!

And besides, what else to we Northerners have to do this time of year??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don't know, never been to the North in winter. Always been too busy sailing, flying, etc...

Things sometimes change over the years and so I think it never hurts to re-ask a question that might have been asked/answered a 100 times before. Somebody might have stumbled upon a new product or idea. If we only searched the archives we might someday miss the fact that someone has introduced a new way to lower the mast.

Edited by - GaryB on 12/14/2010 11:06:00

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 11:19:25

Sorry to stir up deep feeling about the repetition of topics. That wasn't my intent. The post above was intended as a summary statement of the thread as a whole with a little humor injected.

I don't care about teh same subjects coming up year over year. I don't think anyone here does. If you go back in my postcount to about #5 you'll find me asking similar questions. One of the most enlightening posts on being a mast monkey (for me) was where someone calculated the moment arm of a person aloft and suggested it might be enough to overcome the keel ballast. An interesting idea I hadn't considered. For the energy and accelleration due to gravity bit above, well I have reserved comment on that, but it does prove the point that if you fall, it could hurt.

OTOH, if you fall and it means you can never work again, there are regattas for disabled sailors...

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 11:20:05

Oh crap, I made a joke again, and someone might think I am serious. Please read the website disclaimer before falling from your rigging.

Prospector.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 17:30:48

Rigging the A-frame, releasing 2 shrouds and forestay, slackening 2 shrouds, and lowering and raising the mast can easily be done in under 45 minutes.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 17:31:48

I bought a mast mate for going up the mast. Will I ever go up the mast...that's a good question. I guess what I had in mind was if the combo steaming light/deck light needs changing, going up part way, I think I can handle that. It is rare that my mast comes down since I keep my boat in the water year-round but will probably have it out next fall for about a week to have the bottom repainted with a multi-year ablative paint (last time painted was over 4 years ago). I may also decide to have the standing rigging replaced at same time and keep the boat out possibly a 2nd week but where I am, dry docking into the mtn yard costs $200/week whether I do the work or someone else does it. It crossed my mind that with the mast mate...and I know this is going to drive some negative comments, it is possible to replace one stay at a time with mast up...I discussed this with the Mast Mate Mfr and he indicated plenty of sailors have done just that.....but faced with actually doing it that way....seems like it is better to do it in the mtn yard with mast down and either getting the CD standing rigging kit for a tall tig or have a rigger just make up the rigging.

Mulling over the above (potential to change the combo light - but not the anchor light since it is an LED and probably will never have to change that one out) and also that I have purchased replacement halyards to change out the halyards out this winter...thought the mast mate would come in handy especially if the halyard changeout winds up with glitches and "someone" has to go up to the top.

Anyway...read all the above comments regarding the safe way to work on the mast....and makes sense.

Edited by - OLarryR on 12/14/2010 17:34:45

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 18:12:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Rigging the A-frame, releasing 2 shrouds and forestay, slackening 2 shrouds, and lowering and raising the mast can easily be done in under 45 minutes.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wanna Race..???
I can lower/raise/rerigg in 11.2 minutes

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 19:18:28

"One of the most enlightening posts on being a mast monkey (for me) was where someone calculated the moment arm of a person aloft and suggested it might be enough to overcome the keel ballast"
Surely you have the dock lines on and tight...
The 1st time I was up the mast was on a SK C22 which had a 500lb keel.. 3 of my "friends" from the Club took turns stepping across the boat from side to side. They all weighed over 200 lbs and I was swinging over the slips on each side. Was quite enjoyable actually...!
I've said it before - if Dame Ellen can climb her mast UNAIDED, 4 times in the Southern Ocean on a 60' boat, surely we are brave enough to climb a 28' or 30' mast in the safety of our slip.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 20:07:56

Larry, I wouldn't feel very good about going to the top of a mast and unhooking one of the four wires that holds it up--especially the forestay or backstay. The lower shrouds will be well below your feet, and as suggested earlier here, the connections are not anywhere near as robust as on a 40-footer where people go up the mast routinely (because lowering it is much more impractical).

Derek: The people who singlehand 60' sleds on the Southern Ocean are beyond my comprehension. That they climb their masts out there has even less meaning to me. My brain can't get there.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/14/2010 20:29:53

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 20:49:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Larry, I wouldn't feel very good about going to the top of a mast and unhooking one of the four wires that holds it up--especially the forestay or backstay.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You might get similar results as I did when I was kid building a treehouse. Sat down on the outside of the frame and began trimming a board hanging over the edge. It dawned on me about the time I finished cutting the board that I might not be as smart as I thought I was. Luckily I was young and my bones were still flexible (ours are not now). The hammer missed my head by about six inches.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3478 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 22:00:35

Well...I have lot's of ideas but actually doing them is another thing. I like thinking about it...and probably that's all it will amount to...The first time it will even be considered is when I replace the halyards and I intend to make sure I bind the old to the new halyard securely before doing the change-out. Boat is going into the mtn yard...planning for next Fall...and I have been considering giving a call to a rigger to find out options and costs. Envy those that drop their mast often and so are use to it. This is one thing I have not done and rarely have boat on land to even consider it, though, mast was taken down in the figner slip about 4 years ago when I had the help of a mechanic.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 22:20:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">if Dame Ellen can climb her mast UNAIDED, 4 times in the Southern Ocean on a 60' boat, surely we are brave enough to climb a 28' or 30' mast in the safety of our slip.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I wonder if Dame Ellen had a safer alternative would she have opted for the unaided climb?

Many years ago, I was fortunate enough to crew on the USCG Barque Eagle. I found myself at the top of the tailship's Foremast, 157-feet above the water many times. Bravery did not lead me there; a keen assessment of risk, proper training, and adequate equipment played a huge part, however. Likewise, ascending to the top of a 28-foot mast does not make one brave. Without carefully weighing the risks, it could make one badly injured or good and dead. In my humble opinion, bravery should not play a role in routine maintenance.

Climbing any mast brings with it an element of risk. Just because our boats are small doesn't mean the risk is small. It's my opinion that the risk is greater given the size/condition of the running and standing rigging, the experience of the crew, and the relative appearance that a 28-foot mast looks short compared to that Catalina 380 across the dock. As always, your mileage may vary. And when I say "your mileage may vary," I am speaking of the mileage one gets while towing their C-25 with their Jeep Grand Cherokee. Which is another thread...

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 08:11:50

As an aside, my boat stays in the water all year. I already have sent one guy up the mast without any problems. My sheaves are brand new. halyards in good shape. Stays have been inspected.

The one big pain in the a$$ with taking my mast down is the roller furling.

I do however, have access to a marina crane. We used it to re-step the mast last time.

Edited by - PCP777 on 12/15/2010 08:12:16

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 08:28:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The one big pain in the a$$ with taking my mast down is the roller furling<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do you have a CDI furler?

I connect mine directly to the a-frame. However, when I lower the mast, I do not need to disconnect it before I raise it again.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 08:53:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The one big pain in the a$$ with taking my mast down is the roller furling<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do you have a CDI furler?

I connect mine directly to the a-frame. However, when I lower the mast, I do not need to disconnect it before I raise it again.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah I sure do. Do you take the sail off?

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:14:39

No, I leave sail on.
Here is a video I made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

I don't have to take anything completely off. I just lower the mast to clear a bridge at the end of my canal. I do all the work while we are motoring down the canal. You do not need all the equipment I use to lower your mast. The things I use just speed up the process.

Edited by - Davy J on 12/15/2010 09:15:22

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:17:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The one big pain in the a$$ with taking my mast down is the roller furling<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do you have a CDI furler?

I connect mine directly to the a-frame. However, when I lower the mast, I do not need to disconnect it before I raise it again.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah I sure do. Do you take the sail off?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have a C250 with roller furler, and I did take the sail off (for winter storage, repair, and eventual replacement) before dropping the mast. Not sure it was completely necessary, but it does reduce the weight and make the furler extrusion a little easier to handle.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:23:36

As you will see in the video, the mast head is fairly far back from the transom. When I need to do masthead work, I turn the boat around and can then access masthead from the shore.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:38:03

Ya gotta admit, Hobies are the shizzle when it comes to working on mast problems. Flip them on their side and enjoy.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:41:32

Wow, Davy! Down-and-up going out and coming back in... How often do you go out?

Edited by - on

Davy J
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USA
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:51:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Wow, Davy! Down-and-up going out and coming back in... How often do you go out?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Once or twice a week. I think I have lowered, then raised the mast about 800 to 1000 times. In addition, I've done it in the rain and at night.

Edited by - on

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