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Preventing corrosion in mast lights?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 12/14/2010 : 18:22:04

Late this season my anchor and deck lights stopped working. I lived without them until dropping the mast this fall, and I got to do some quick maintenance on them last weekend now that the mast is down. All three masthead wires failed continuity, meaning that in the ~2 months since haulout, the steaming light had also failed.

I took all the bulbs out and wiped the copper contacts a bit - I did not have any polish or cleaner, just some WD4 on a rag. Two of the three lights then passed continuity, so it was just corrosion and/or looseness of the contacts that caused it. The deck light bulb still didn't work. Although its filament looked pristine, there must have been some corrosion in the bayonet base, because the bulb itself fails continuity. I will replace it.

Here are my questions:

In the spring I will do a thorough cleaning/polishing of the contact points. Is there a well-tested way of preventing corrosion in the future? Would vaseline, trailer bearing grease, or silicone caulk create an effective barrier layer? Any other ideas?

Also, I was shocked at how flimsy the anchor light connector is. The 1-1/2" long copper strip looks like it would loosen awfully easily. Are there any suggested ways of reinforcing this so that it squeezes the bulb more firmly?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 12/14/2010 : 21:08:38

Rick, which type and brand of mast head anchor light fixture do you have?

I've got an Aquasignal All Around anchor light fixture and when I tried installing a Dr LED bulb, it was so off-center and heavy, I realized it would not remain in place for very long.

The corresponding festoon incandescent bulb is thin, centered and has very little mass compared to the LED bulb.

This was why I kept the incandescent bulb in place and did not ask my marina yard manager to replace it with a LED.

Looking at other festoon LED bulbs, there are a number of thinner, smaller bulbs but they don't have the following essential characteristics:
1. USCG Approval (this is a big one)
2. Sufficient light brightness to meet the 2 nautical mile requirement.
3. Voltage variation tolerance.
The Dr LED bulb uses an internal voltage regulator to allow it to provide constant voltage to the bulb (and brightness) in the face of boat voltage variations between 11.0 and 14.6 volts.

I also purchased a bayonet-base LED bulb that plugs into a different type of fixture (I don't know which brand fixture), but I'd like to get one. The bayonet-base LED seems more stable, the base is more rigid and less likely to shake loose.

So I agree there has to be a more secure fixture-bulb pairing for my money. By the way, I used the Dr LED bulb in my nav light fixture.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 06:41:03

<< Any other ideas? >>

I usta use a "dielectric" grease on the connections to prevent corrosion on the house panel connections. Kinda thick and in a tube, from an electrical supply. Nationwise auto also sells some.

Personally, I think the fixture wiggles on purpose, as the movement cleans the connection. But don't ask me ask the dead engineer that designed it. The fixture is famous for "bump" it and it works. Better than having the old fixture types where the bulb rusts in place, the glass bulb breaks and you can't get it out and you gotta replace the whole fixture.

I think everyone is waiting on a good LED solution, that as of yet has not presented itself. ( other than run a portable battery operated up the halyard )

In the heat these fixtures see, I think the grease would just run out. I lean toward sanding the surface, so it cuts a little when it wiggles, and learning to drop the mast and clean every year.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 06:45:13

What was that old Helicopter saying?.. an hour of maintenance for every hour of use..

Edited by - on

DaveR
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 06:56:05

I've got the same thing going on and I think I'll probably coat everything I can with liquid electrical tape and grease the sockets (bearing grease) real good. Works well with trailer lights so..............

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redeye
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 07:21:41

Maybe we should do some searches on some other forums and find out what they are doing, we seem to be at a loss.. I could not find anything offered commercially that seemed to be an option, other than bebi, and I'm gonna try that one.

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Davy J
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 08:03:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've got an Aquasignal All Around anchor light fixture and when I tried installing a Dr LED bulb, it was so off-center and heavy, I realized it would not remain in place for very long.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When did you purchase the Dr Led Bulb?

The reason I ask is; I installed a Dr Led Bulb, that I bought a few years ago, in the Aquasignal anchor light. And, although it was large and I had to "manipulate" the bracket, it has worked very well. So, I was going to install them in the nav lights as well. When I went to purchase them, I noticed that the design has changed. It looks like it has two different fittings and a lot more flimsy. Also at the current price of 50.00 a pop I waited.

I did see an alternative at the St Pete boat show. It was on display from svhotwire.com. I could not see the actual bulb because it was in the fixture. But, at 30.00 a piece, I think I will make the trip to their store/house and check them out.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 08:32:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Rick, which type and brand of mast head anchor light fixture do you have?

I've got an Aquasignal All Around anchor light fixture and when I tried installing a Dr LED bulb, it was so off-center and heavy, I realized it would not remain in place for very long.

The corresponding festoon incandescent bulb is thin, centered and has very little mass compared to the LED bulb...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I could not ID the fixture because I was already reaching about 18" off the stern of my boat to get to the bulb. (I guess I should have looked at the top cap a little more closely.) But the steaming/deck fixture is also by Aquasignal, and the anchor fixture looks just like this:

<center>

</center>

(Image from http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=286)

It's pretty much as you described. The flimsy copper strip is probably that way to provide 360 degree lighting with minimal shadowing from the strip. But it is very flimsy. As soon as I saw it I thought "no way that's gonna hold an LED assembly." Fortunately I don't anchor enough to make the cost of an LED worth it.

The "bumping" theory is interesting. Maybe I should get a BB gun to periodically bump the masthead. lol

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:09:07

"Burnishing" contacts is certainly valuable preventative maintenance, emery cloth is great. I carry a Davis hanging light that I can put on my backstay as an emergency anchor light, I learned long ago to never count on mast lights. I sail on a lake where anchor lights are considered running lights and everyone runs them when sailing at night, I think that kind of use helps them be more reliable.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:33:58

<>

Aquasignal series 25 all around light.

Yepper.. I usta think it was the wiring, I'd bump the light fixtures and they would come on. I've heard it from others, so now I'm thinkin the bulb connections on those bayonet bulbs corrode and then make contact with movement.

I've never seen another light fixture behave like this.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 09:44:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...I sail on a lake where anchor lights are considered running lights and everyone runs them when sailing at night...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">So they're showing as big powerboats. Oh well...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/15/2010 09:45:27

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 10:19:24

Rick,
I purchased a tube of silicone grease (not RTV) from an electronics supply store (Fry's) that I used to coat the metal surfaces of the bulb and seal the gaps the last time I had the mast down. Keeps that moisture off the metal surfaces and you can seal around the top edge of the lamp socket for additional protection.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 11:35:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...I sail on a lake where anchor lights are considered running lights and everyone runs them when sailing at night...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">So they're showing as big powerboats. Oh well...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
On our little lake it is all about being "pretty" at night. When my mast lights are out people think it's me that is a powerboat! Ah Kansas.

Does anyone solder the bulbs in? Festoons can last a very long time, and could be sweat on and off several times. I just looked at the UV crazed lenses on my new boat and ordered new fixtures without even trying the lights. I noticed Catalina has switched to Hella but I stayed with Aqua Signal 25s so the switch would be easy.
Windex has a light that uses a small threaded bulb, I wonder if a flashlight halogen bulb would fit, it could be a really small anchor light if it could do 2 nm.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 11:46:44

<< Windex has a light that uses a small threaded bulb >>

Thanks for reminding me.. I would like a windex light up there.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 13:44:40

Ya got me goin on this one now...

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=03310

And the Davis products always seem to be extremely well built..

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redeye
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Response Posted - 12/15/2010 : 13:57:53

http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/marine/manuals/3200_IM_Windex-light.PDF

AHhh this Davis light...

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/05/2011 : 22:15:50

Since spring is approaching I will be installing the replacement light bulbs. So it's time to re-activiate this thread.

For the festoon bulb anchor and steaming lights (dimples on the ends), I plan to burnish the copper contact points with emory cloth. I would like to seal them off to prevent corrosion, but I am afraid if I try to use any type of grease as a barrier that it will get too hot in the sunlight and run down to the bottom of the fixture. So I am thinking of hitting the contact points with a little dab of 3M Marine Silicone Sealant. That will crosslink in place and be heat resistant, and could be removed a few years down the road if the bulbs burn out.

Can anyone think of a reason that I would NOT want to do this?

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 08:56:52

Get a can of electronic contact cleaner and clean all the contacts and wires. Use a toothbrush and spray the cleaner liberally. Place the new festoon bulb in and then spray everything with this http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001& storeId=11151& partNumber=279620& langId=-1 I use this on all my electrical connections. You will never see corrosion again. Its an amber colored, Flexible coating that works at sealing contacts. Grease wont last do to the heat problem not only from the bulb but from the sun.

Edited by - islander on 03/06/2011 08:59:26

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 09:52:11

I have been considering soldering a jumper from the bulb to the fitting contact to avoid applying prolonged heat to the LED bulb from trying to solder it directly and then gluing the bulb in place to remove mechanical strain, then corrosion coat the entire assembly.

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dmpilc
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Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 09:10:29

You can buy Aqua Signal series 25 lenses from Defender, but for $1 more you can buy the whole fixture, which will give you a spare base and bulb if the originals are still in good order. It's worth the extra $1, especially since a pkg of 2 festoon bulbs is well over $5. I did just that this weekend, replaced the weathered and fogged up bow bi-color and stern light lenses as the bases and bulbs were still working. Simple swap out, 2 screws on each unit. I will do the anchor light next time I drop the mast.

Edited by - on

PZell
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Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 13:18:21

There was a long discussion once on the Trailer Sailor forum about running lights and colregs. Seems if you run your all around anchor light and red/green running lights while sailing that is okay. But, you would have to have your white stern light off.

Edited by - PZell on 03/07/2011 13:20:39

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 13:54:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PZell
 There was a long discussion once on the Trailer Sailor forum about running lights and colregs. Seems if you run your all around anchor light and red/green running lights while sailing that is okay. But, you would have to have your white stern light off.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I am not sure of the absolute legalities of having a steaming light on while sailing. As a practical matter, you will be giving up your rights as a stand-on vessel, since others will treat you as if you are under power. So be prepared to give way as if you are under power.

Given that, I would postulate that it is "less illegal" to sail with the steaming light on than it is to run your motor with the steaming light off.

But don't quote me if the coasties pull you over.

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PZell
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Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 14:50:41

Not steaming light. All around anchor light at masthead and red/green running lights but no stern light is legal. However, it is irregular and you might be taken as a power vessel.

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dmpilc
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Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 16:17:15

Regardless of your running light configuration, it might be a good idea to keep a flashlight handy in the cockpit at night and light up your sails if you see a vessel nearing you.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 17:14:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PZell
 Not steaming light. All around anchor light at masthead and red/green running lights but no stern light is legal. However, it is irregular and you might be taken as a power vessel.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry I played loose with my terminology. Here's what I meant:

Steaming light = 225°
Stern Light = 135°
Anchor light = 360°

Thus, in my mind, Steaming Light + Stern Light = Anchor Light. Note that most powered pleasure boats have a single elevated 360° white light on their stern. So when you turn on your steaming light you are projecting white light over 360°, just like a power boat. Obviously an anchor light's position is not close enough to the stern for USCG compliance. But to a distant vessel this is not immediately apparent, and running with an anchor light will make you look like a powerboat (much as if you have steaming + stern illuminated). Hence you should prepare to give way like a powerboat if your anchor light is on. (Basically the same thing that you said.)

And I agree that having both anchor and stern light illuminated would be confusing to boats behind you, and would be quite illegal.

This might be much ado about nothing, but could become very important if you are out at night and your steaming or stern light fails. The anchor light might be your best way to achieve some level of compliance and safety.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/07/2011 17:16:36

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/08/2011 : 07:36:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 ...Obviously an anchor light's position is not close enough to the stern for USCG compliance...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not and issue. COLREGS allow a powerboat under 39' to show a single white 360 plus red/green sidelights. The white should be aft of and some minimum height (I forget--maybe a meter) higher than the sidelights, but it doesn't have to be at or near the stern. So your masthead anchor light and your red/green are valid for running under power. In that case, the steaming and stern lights should be off (except on Frank Hopper's KS lake, where the guy with the most lights on is theoretically least likely to get hit

).

Small, open powerboats use white all-arounds at the transom to maximize the operator's vision forward--not because of the rules. Your anchor light is high enough to make that not an issue.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/08/2011 07:38:53

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