Association Forum - C250 with bowsprit

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

C250 with bowsprit

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/22/2011 : 10:52:34

Has anyone added a bowsprit to a C250??
If so...
how was it done
what dimensions were used
how is it secured
permanent or removable?
Any photographs

we're considering using an 8.8 x4.88 mtr (29 x 16 ft) asymmetrical sail on our C250 WB

Henk & Johanna
"Floating", a few off your "barnacles".
"Someday Lady" '95 C250WB #151 ('03 - 2016)
"Sea ya" 30ft Bayliner (04-2018 - 09-2018)
"Mariah" '96 C250WB #191 (05-2019 - 15-05-2023)
"Lady J" '00 C250WK #499 (05-2021 - 09-2022)

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 06:32:48

Im trying to put something together for my boat ...

using my spinnaker pole ,

1st making a mounting to the anchor roller , or adding a second ..

2nd mount in between the anchor locker door and the front hatch door .
between the two there is some space ..
use a small piece of car track their and make a custom car for the pole to mount too .
also have the car and the pole removable .

that gets the sail out over 3`

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 07:05:11

Like [url="http://www.americanriggingsupply.com/Selden%20GBS%202008%20Retail.pdf"]this[/url]?

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 07:18:43

Selden has a nice cataloge ...the problem with their kit is as you can see in the picture the sprint is pretty small 4` to 6` long maybe ..

when you have jump the anchor locker for a mount the pole starts getting pretty long ..

Edited by - SEAN on 01/23/2011 07:28:28

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 07:33:39

my thought was ... it would be nice if it was out far enough out , to fly the jib at the same time .
on a no-wind day

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 09:26:43

Could you fly the drifter with a short painter attached at the bow without a sprit or would that lead to the sails fouling one another too much? It might work for downwind wing and wing???

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 09:49:00

ya i could fly it like that too ...just thinking more options w/less stuff

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 19:10:10

Perhaps a solution, without drilling or adding anything permanent until we know it works, would be to use a 2" extend-able from 7ft to 13 ft spinnaker pole.

The pole would be connected to an eye-bolt located in what is normally used for the gin pole hole in the base of the mast and extended forward by 1, 2 or 3 ft past the fore-stay and tied somehow solidly to the deck fore-stay/pulpit connection.

Since the pole would be exposed to substansial port or starboard forces as well as friction the pole would need to be re-enforced with a wood 1x3" by perhaps 12 inch or so long. Not exactly sure how to make a proper and quick install/removable connection.

The end of the pole would be connected to the trailers boat eye-bolt using some, perhaps adjustable line and pelican clips or so... Not sure...

Since the base or thicker end of the spinnaker pole is stronger, perhaps this should be the forward end ?

Any suggestions or ideas...

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2011 : 19:58:44

Nice sketch of the boat !!

i was told a adjustable pole is not meant for that because the wall is to thin ,
i have a 9.4 L , 2 1/2 diameter forspare spinnaker pole and that does pretty good flexing some days ..

if you all ready have the pole it looks like it should work on a light day

i also remember somebody posting a 250 with a blue spinnaker sprint set up off the nose ..
but that was a more permanent set up

Edited by - SEAN on 01/26/2011 20:27:33

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2011 : 08:41:39

Yes, a drifter flies well with an adjustable tack line. Needed is 3'-4'beyond a block at the stem fitting. There is some risk of an adjustable tack line... I had it get away from me once and even though I had a fair size stopper knot on it... the drifter sucked the knot right through the block and we were flying a wicked looking kite from the mast top.

Off wind, the drifter benefits greatly from easing the tack line out 2'-3'. I tack the drifter as a genoa whereas an asymmetrical would probably be tacked outside. I've sailed several times dead down wind with wing and wing configuration of the jib and reacher with no main as the main contacts the spreaders dead down wind.

Henk... my belief is that you could run an asymmetrical without a sprit pole. The thing is... the 250 moves quite easily in light air and a 155 reacher does fairly well off wind and the reacher can also do the same to weather in lighter air making it more versatile without much down wind trade off over an asymmetrical.

Just something to think about. If you've fallen into an asymmetrical then go for it... but if your looking for bang for a buck spent... I'm thinking the character of the 250 is more in line with a reacher.

My tune however changes a little if one has the shaeffer furler as it requires an anti fouling block on the mast a short way down from the masthead and uses the jib halyard. On that configuration, the asymmetrical seems more practical as one has to tack forward anyway and use a spiniker halyard.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2011 : 19:05:23

Arlyn,
Is a "155 reacher" just another name for a 155% genoa ?

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

Members Avatar

452 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2011 : 20:39:47

Here is the one Judy did for their Catalina 27. I think something like this could be done pretty easy.
http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/bowsprit.htm

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2011 : 21:32:08

Yes, a reacher is quite similar to a genoa other than it is made of light material for winds generally less than seven knots. Therefore, it does not need a pole as it will shape itself in very light air.

On the 250 it must be sheeted very far aft, and the one that Ulman Sails makes is designed to be sheeted to the aft stanchion forward leg or leg of a cat bird seat. It is cut a little high for that geometry to work but works quite well.

It can be managed (set and doused) either by using a sock or as I do, in the lee of the main (requires running off wind while setting or dousing)

One difference between it and a genoa is that instead of tensioning the luff with a halyard, it is done with a tack or pendant line. When working to weather, the tack pendant is hardened to bring the tack close to the stem to produce a taught luff. Off wind, the pendant line is eased as much as two or more feet to produce a full pocketed sail.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 01/25/2011 21:34:31

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 19:42:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Here is the one Judy did for their Catalina 27. I think something like this could be done pretty easy.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That looks strong enough

but if the boat is kept on a trailer , the mast raising post.. is pretty close to the bow

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2011 : 21:17:01

Thank you people... feel a lot more confident to fly the big sail during light winds without using the spinnaker pole as a makeshift try-out bowsprit... in fact can't wait to try it even though I'm a little apprehensive about it.

Thank you Arlyn for details regarding an adjustable tack line and we'll make sure it won't get away on us. Must have been quite a sight!! We'll be sheeting it to the forward leg of the aft stanchion.

Some time ago we bought a second hand spinnaker and just last year obtained a good-as-new used douser

I still have some concern that the foot and tack of the sail might get tangled and/or damaged by the pulpit's nav light... We'll watch it carefully and if that is the case I'll fabricate something removable as indicated in the sketch below. Instead of anchoring the cross part between the cleats it is probably better to use the stanchions instead.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2011 : 12:21:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zeil
 I still have some concern that the foot and tack of the sail might get tangled and/or damaged by the pulpit's nav light<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Henk,

The tack of the spinnaker will generally be more than a couple feet off the deck so when it's flying it'll probably be above your pulpit.

When I first used my cruising spinnaker, I initially attached a block to my stem fitting for the adjustable tack line, but I soon found out that when reaching, the position of the tack was considerably to leeward of centerline and the more I let out the tack line to get the tack higher, the more it went to leeward postioning the spinnaker more into the main's wind shadow. To alleviate this issue, I purchased the ATN Tacker to position the tack more on centerline. Worked great until I discovered it doesn't float.

After the Tacker went into the drink, I started using a webbed nylon sling with D-Rings on both ends to hold the tack more on center.

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2011 : 15:55:06

If you haven't tried a whisker pole yet, I suggest you start with that. It took me a couple of seasons to dare use mine, but once we figured it out sailing down wind caught up in a yacht race under the Jamestown bridge near Newport we were positively thrilled with the results. They are easy to use and add a big boost.

Vern

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 15:08:51

Wow... won't ever leave home without it... the asymmetrical spinnaker works like having motor assist. Even though we used some lumber, a couple of ss bolts & fasteners and a lick of paint the bowsprit works great. In light winds, when others are hardly making way, the lightweight sail just surges the boat forward.

Is the bowsprit required? Not really, we sailed on Peter Holdack's C250 WB Sea Bear and had the tack extended by about 3ft which traveled free inside and out over the pulpit. The only reason it is required on our boat is because we have the 3 legged mast holder extension on the bow which obstructs free the travel of the tack. We'll have to buy (second hand) 2 winches to be mounted on the cockpit coamings and 2 clam cleats and two blocks to make the installation complete

The trial bowsprit is held in place by the forward pulpit stanchions and bolted with one single bolt to the stem fitting. Upward forces are checked by a 3/8 line connected to the boat's eye bolt. The red ketch-up bottle top is secured with a slot over top of wing nut holding the two wood pieces together and warns of fracturing your toes. (should be wearing shoes anyway)

One problem the way this is constructed is that you have to remove it in order to access the anchor locker.

What I would like to do is somehow construct an upward or downward hinging bowsprit. (Would also be more economical when renting a slip)

The snuffer/douser works great and makes things a lot less stressful

The asymmetrical provides flexibility and points of sailing

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 17:00:16

Nice !!!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2011 : 10:10:38

I enjoy flying my spinnaker too! Since I started using it, I now plan my day sails so I end up with a nice 10-15 mile spinnaker run.

Looking at your top and bottom spin photos, it appears you may be reaching so you might want to ease the spin tack and sheet.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2011 : 08:14:55

Thank you... we're learning to ease things... jibing still needs more work. Had a terrific sailing day yesterday. The big sail is just like having a V8 powering the boat. Sailed till dark and hope to do it again today

Edited by - zeil on 03/10/2011 08:16:51

mmac
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2011 : 09:33:27

Henk,

Has usual you've done a beautiful job. I hope that thing is removable because some marinas will charge you more for a longer boat.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2011 : 11:37:12

Hi Mike:

That "thing", indeed is removable, just clamped and held with one bolt, wingnut and a line. It works great and allows to fly the sail freely. A permanent SS bowsprit will somehow be hinged downward to eliminate the extra charges you mentioned.

BTW come have a look, we love to meet you again... we're hoping to arrive in San Diego's Mission Bay Marina Village Marina next Wednesday and should be on D dock hopefully slip 4

PS: Miss Ineke who passed away recently.

Edited by - zeil on 03/12/2011 11:38:07

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.