Association Forum

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

sails

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

zebra50
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
408 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/06/2011 : 10:26:04

After 13 years with the same sails, it is finally time to replace both the stock 150 jib and the main. Any suggestions on where to purchase? Not looking for anything special, just stock Catalina for my 250 wb.

Jay
Papa's Boat II
250WB #370
Blog:http://zebra50-boilingpoint.blogspot.com

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 10:54:04

Jay,
A couple of things on Sail Replacement.
1. If you go to Catalina Direct understand that the UV shield on their foresail is Dacron and not Sunbrella. Fine if you are a racer concerned about weight as it is lighter and if you are willing to replace it about every two years as it wears out rather quickly but not as good a long term investment as a Sunbrella UV Shield.
2. You stated you are replacing the stock sails that came with the boat but mention a 150% Jib...mine and I thought all others came with a stock 110%. This will make a considerable difference in cost. Interestingly my sailmaker when looking at my old jib said it did NOT measure out as large as was stated in the specs.
3. I can let you know at launch regarding the quality of my new sails, although the loft, Bacon in Annapolis has a good reputation so I don't forsee any problems. (knocking on wood here). To get an idea of what your costs would be if buying from them, they have an easy to use calculator...just enter your boat model and what % you want your jib and the price comes right up. www.baconsails.com
Good luck whatever you decide,
Willy

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 11:35:41

Jay,
I imagine you've seen the many posts regarding this subject. There are as many preferences as there are members. Some will argue for for custom made sails from a local loft. Others, like me, make price-driven decisions. Many will argue for local sailmakers so that you'll have "service after the sale". Really? How often, in the 13 years you've had your boat, have you needed "service" for your sails? I did, once, 4 years ago, when I failed to secure my headsail properly and a seam got torn out in some heavy wind while wrapped around the furler in my slip. That was 4 years ago. It cost me less than $100 for the seam repair and replacement of the UV protection. I haven't seen that sailmaker before or since. Not because he wasn't a good sailmaker or a nice guy, it was just that he was far more expensive than the loft I bought from. The price difference wasn't worth the "relationship" to me. Besides, I'm pretty sure he'll sell me any repairs I might need in the future.

To directly answer your question, I bought my 135% headsail from [url="http://www.nationalsail.com/"]National Sail[/url] in Florida. It's a [url="http://www.rollytasker.com/en/home.aspx"]Rolly Tasker[/url] sail made in Thailand. Quick turn around and good price.

BTW, I think Willy's right that the 110% was the standard sail on the 250 but, I imagine a 150% would have been an option. Do you like the 150%? I bought a 135% and sometimes wish I had purchased a 110% replacement and a "drifter", (aka, "gennaker", aka, "assym", etc.) for those light wind days. I think the 135% sometimes overpowers the boat in even moderate wind. Unlike the C25, which is more headsail driven, I think too much headsail on the 250 just makes it more difficult to balance the boat. I had a real problem with lee helm the first season I had it.

Edited by - John Russell on 03/06/2011 11:37:31

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 12:40:39

Thirteen years isn't very old for sails that have only been used a few hours each weekend, especially if they're only used during summer months. I have seen a lot of people who have replaced good sails that would have provided another 10-12 years of service with occasional minor maintenance. Unless you're a serious racer, don't assume they need to be replaced just because of their age.

I'd take them to a competent sailmaker, and have minor repairs made, so you can either keep them as back-ups, or so you can sell them, and ask the sailmaker's opinion whether they actually need to be replaced. You might end up saving $1000.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 13:20:32

If they need replacing and you don't have special needs I would go with Catalina Direct. I got sails there for our C22. The sails were "Offshore by Ullman." I have been satisfied with everything I have ever gotten from Catalina Direct.

Our C250WK has a 135. A 150 would be too much for our lake which gets pretty good winds.

I would go with a Sunbrella UV cover. We don't race so any negligible impact on sail shape is not an issue for us.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 14:13:26

Steve makes a good point. You might just need a good cleaning. I sent my main to [url="http://www.sailcare.com/"]Sailcare[/url] and had them clean it and replace the slugs and make a few minor repairs. I like the work they did. You can send them the sails and they'll do an inspection before cleaning. If they think it needs replacement, they'll tell you then you're only out the cost of shipping. When my main returned, it looked and performed like a new sail.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 19:13:29

Just to add my own personal experience, my boat is 13 years old, and saw very limited use for the 3-4 years before I bought her. On my last outing of the season (mid-October) I got hit by a cloudless front, got caught in irons at one point, and had some unfortunate hard slapping of my 110 genoa against the mast. Afterwards I found some minor tearing near where it had slapped. I had had the genoa restitched in May, so the stitches were in great shape - much better than the actual fabric, which was extremely weak in that spot. The tear was located just inside the white UV protection strip, and based on the poor condition of the cloth in that area, my guess is that the UV protection is not totally opaque, and over the course of years enough of the sun's rays got through the furled sail to damage the next layer of cloth below. Note that this deterioration would happen whether you use the boat or not. As long as the sail is furled, it gets sun exposure if you don't have an opaque cover.

The guy who restitched my sail warned me that the cloth was weakening and I would need a new sail in about a year. I'm sure I could have found someone to try to repair the whole strip of damaged fabric, but I did not want to risk a failure of my Genoa in prime sailing season this year. So I ordered a new 110 with Sunbrella strip from Doyle Sails in Annapolis. Although he's not local, he grew up in this area and is going to drive up to check out the sail on my boat. That personalized attention was enough to make the sale for me, and I'm glad that it's made in the US.

I agree that overseas sails are perfectly fine quality for most uses, and it's hard to envision needing to maintain a "relationship" with a sail loft. When you do need repairs I'm sure the guy down the street will be happy to have your business - that is, if he is still in business.

Edited by - on

vholmstrom
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2011 : 12:55:47

I just took delivery on a new C250 WK 2 months ago. The standard Catalina jib did not have a sunbrella cover sewn to it, so I ordered a jib sock from Catalina Direct. It zips over the furled jib in just a few minutes using the jib halyard to raise it. A second zipper from the bottom means the jib sheets stay attached with the jib sock in place. It seems like a great choice for protecting the jib without adding the weight of a sewn in sunbrella cover.

Do you also need to replace your sail cover? If so, you might consider a Doyle Stackpack. I just had one made for our original equipment mainsail. On ours, the mainsail is attached to their zip up sailcover with lazy jacks attached. When done sailing, just drop the main halyard. The sailcover opens to accept the sail while the lazy jacks do a pretty good job of flaking the sail. After minimal straightening of the sail, you just zip up the cover and it is put away.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2011 : 13:21:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by vholmstrom
 I just took delivery on a new C250 WK 2 months ago...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nice to see that they are still making the C250. I had heard that several models were discontinued because of the expense of re-establishing production in Florida, and was afraid that the C250 might be a casualty of the move.

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2011 : 18:43:42

I think I have been very lucky for the sails to last this long. I finally bought a sumbrella sock for the jib, should have done that years ago. The sails need more than cleaning or seam stitching, I have patched them with sail tape and resewn the various seams. It is time to suck it up and get new replacements. Doyle seems like a reasonable priced replacement, so far. I will try a couple of others just to satisfy my own curiosity. Thanks for all the help.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3465 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2011 : 04:02:55

As was said earlier, there are many postings on this subject if you do a search on the Forum. It was also mentioned about custom vs off the shelf, local vs not. But as long as you are leaning toward Doyle which is one of the three largest sailmakers in the country, rcmd also check out Quantum which is what I went with for both a main and 150 Genoa. They are on the high end of the cost range, so don't go there if looking only at the least expensive sails...but if considering Doyle...my guess is that the costs are in same ballpark since I was down to buying from Doyle or Quantum.

Regardless of the sailmaker (and there are excellent sailmakers out there) you are basically buying sailcloth. Rcmd check out Mack Sail's website (sailmaker from Florida). They have an excellent website that explains a bit about the sailcloth you are going to be buying. Might as well know something about it because dacron sails will basically last 15-20 years before they start to really wear and look terrible. But Dacron sails will stretch and they blow out much earlier, though, many may not realize it. They generally will blow out...like in the first 4-6 years but better grades of Dacron weave will not stretch/blow out as early. Replacing your sails after 13 years, there will be those that will say that you have a lot of life still in them...and that is true regarding shredding. But the fact that you want to change them out now, me thinks you are noticing they are blown out and you cannot head upwind on a tack as close as you would like even if not racing. If that is true, then rcmd get a sailcloth (Dacron weave) that is less prone to stretching. Take a look at the below website to get an inkling about sailcloth...at least it can be interesting to read even if you don't go with sailcloth they suggest. As far as cost of a sail....it is all over the place and it is not just because it is one sailmaker vs another....it is also sailcloth matl. But a Dacron sail for $500 will probably last as long as a sail that cost twice the price as far as how it looks cosmetically. Anyway, we all have our preferences about what to spend dough on. Some put it into a GPS...others...into the sails and of course...there are those that would definitely not put it into a boat. So...who's to say what each of us prefers. But this Forum is great for getting the information out there. Then based on one's preference...there are many "right" decisions.
Here's Mack sails website:
http://www.macksails.com/sailclth.htm

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.