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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Solar Vents and Rechargeable Batteries

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/23/2011 : 04:52:25

I did not notice this initially but there are differences in the rechargeable batteries used/recommended for each of the Nicro Vent Solar vents. Here's background based on my experiences:

Five years ago, I installed a Nicro Solar vent. I forget which model but it used a Ni-Cad rechargeable. When I replaced my solar vent due to a clicking noise that I could not resolve, the latest Nicro Solar Vents, while they still fit the identical deck hole opening for the 3" and the 4" solar vents, respeectively, some or all of the newer solar vent models require the original solar vent base housing to be replaced - Can't just shove the newer model vent into the base housing of the old model solar vents. This is not a big deal but requires some manual work to remove the old base housing.

But the other difference is regarding the rechargeable battery used in at least one of the new Nicro Solar Vent Models. For example, the Day/Night Plus model, which is the one I installed this past year has one of the highest flow capacities of their vent models and the instruction pamphlet has different words than it does for the other models also contained in the same instruction pamplet regarding rechargeable battery replacement. Most of the newer vent models, as was same for the older models, indicates a Ni-Cad rechargeable battery should be used. But the wording for the Nicro Day/Night "Plus" model indicates a rechargeable battery with at least 2800 milliamp hours should be used. Doesn't say "Ni-Cad" which is used for all the other model descriptions. Many Ni-Cad "C" cells such as the Radio Shack Ni-Cad indicate a max of 2000 mah. Also, the Radio Shack near me does not even carry the Ni-Cads any more and only have the Nickel Metal Hydride (NIMH) rechargeables which have a higher mah rating (ie. C cell from Radio Shack is rated at 3500 mahs). In any case, the Day/Night Plus does not use a Ni-Cad but uses the NIMH rechargeables.

The reason I mention this is because I have always been use to using Ni-Cads and when I first saw the NIMH rechargeables in the stores, there are warnings to only charge these in a NIMH charger and so for other devices that I have that use rechargeables, I refrained from buying these NIMH batteries not wanting to buy a new charger. But when I installed the Nicro vent, the original rechargeable that came with it was dead on arrival and so I did not even notice that it was an NIMH, I just assumed the C cell was the same as in my old vent and so I used one of my Ni-Cads. Actually, the Ni-Cad worked okay in it until I forgot to take it out when I had my winter cover on the boat for about 2-3 weeks. Then when I removed the Ni-Cad and tried to charge it, it would not hold a charge. So, I just happen to look in the instruction booklet and assumed I needed a Ni-Cad with more than 2800 mah, since the manual indicated 2800mahs were the minimum that should be used but it did not say not to use a Ni-Cad. Well, there are no C cell Ni-Cads with over 2800 mahs.. and that's when I noticed that the battery that came with the new solar vent (still had it in the box I saved) was a NIMH rechargeable. I bought NIMH replacement cell and a new charger for NIMH batteries. By the way, I tried to charge the dead on arrival NIMH that came with the vent but it indicated an error on the charger so it was really dead.

Going to install the new NIMH battery in another day or two.

Just wanted to share this info....My thought is that if buying a new vent, you may want to go with the Day/Night Plus and jump into NIMH batteries since most rechargreables are now going that way. Ni-Cads will probably be phased out.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/23/2011 06:09:35

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 08:30:28

Thanks for the heads-up. I looked at the box my new Day/Night Plus vent came in, and yes, it does list on the box that it uses a "high capacity NIMH battery". My had my deck cover cut so it stops just short of the solar vent, so my vent runs all day every day. Of course, that leaves the foredeck from the vent forward to the bow uncovered, but that's okay by me. I want the vent working.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 17:31:41

You'll be happy - NiMH's are superior to NiCads in every way and should co-exist with lithium ions for for awhile.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3462 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 21:24:38

Anyone know what is different between a NiCad charger and a NIMH charger ? The NIMH battery packaging indicates to only use in a NIMH charger. The NIMH chargers indicate only for NIMH batteries. I only saw one battery charger that allowed multiple sized batteries to be charged in it and it charged both NICads and NIMH batteries. I would think that it has something to do with how high a voltage it charges with or how long it stays on before the battery is fully charged.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 08:52:21

There should be an on/off switch on the vent. Why not let the vent charge the basttery!

Also, check with Harbor Freight or Northern Tool. They may have a charger.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/24/2011 08:53:31

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 11:45:38

I bought the applicable charger already. I just thought this was a good topic for discussion - If anyone knows the details as to the charging rates, etc reason why the two different style rechargeables generally are recommended to be charged by chargers made for each. I saw only one charger in a computer sotre that indicated it can cahrge both Ni-Cads and NIMH batteries. So, maybe it has some kind of circuitry inside that detects which battery you are tring to charge. But just curious as to the differences between these rechargeables besides the fact that NIMH batteries last a lot longer 3500mahs compared to 2000mahs for a c size cell.

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 11:55:55

I switched to alkaline batteries when the original battery died and have no problem with them. Should the unit itself die I'll probable close off the hole or switch to another venting system one not needing batteries.

val on the hard DAGNABIT
CAT 25 tall wing 1983 #3936
sunset harbor marina
patchogue,n.y.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 12:41:06

I replaced the battery in mine a year or so ago after noticing that mold had been on the increase. All is well since, wouldn't want to be without it! Is there a passive system that works as well do you think?

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 13:57:31

Our local dollar General store has an Eveready brand AA/AAA NIMH charger and 2 AA batteries for $10. The batteries are 2000 mAh. It will charge 1 or 2 at a time. It does not speak to 2800 mAh batteries.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 14:28:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 There should be an on/off switch on the vent. Why not let the vent charge the basttery!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I never got a charger for the NiCad in my solar vent--just put the battery in the vent and let it charge. The vent didn't even have an on-off switch--that's a newer feature. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Anyone know what is different between a NiCad charger and a NIMH charger?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've read that NiMH batteries do not tolerate as high a charging voltage or as fast a discharge rate as NiCd batteries can. Charging an NiMH at traditional NiCd rates or using it for higher loads will harm the battery. So if a charger can do both, it's probably a lower-power charger than is typical for NiCd, and NiCd will take longer. NiMH also has a faster self-discharge rate. The well-known downside with NiCd is its "memory effect", which results from not fully discharging before re-charging. It's total capacity becomes diminished to the amount you've used, eventually going down to a fraction of the original capacity.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 15:25:46

Lower power and slow charge time sounds about right. The instructions for the Eveready unit I bought at Dollar General list the charge time for 2 AA batteries as 10 hours and cautions to remove them from the charger promptly.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3462 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 16:33:49

Dave,

You are probably right that the charger I saw capable of charging both type of rechargeables is just a low power charger. It was capable of charging all sizes - AA, C, D, etc and sold for less than $20. The charger I bought from Radio Shack was $34. It also charges all sizes but only the NIMH types. It also charges from the AC outlet or from a 12 volt outlet accessory plug as found in autos. It also charges cell phones, etc via a USB jack built into the charger.

I guess I did not need the charger for the battery going into the solar vent since my vent has an off switch. But I was able to fully charge the battery at home rather than let the solar vent do it's thing over days to get the battery to a full charge. When you buy the batteries, they come 2 in a pack and so I want to use the other C Cell in something at home. What that something is....I don't know right now.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/24/2011 16:37:31

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5371 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 19:29:11

NiCads will tolerate higher charging currents and rates, as well as higher discharge rates. This is not an issue with the low discharge rates inherent in the ventilation fan. As well, the solar charging circuit on the solar vent is unable to supply destructive levels of current to the NiMH batteries.

NiMH batteries cannot tolerate excessive heating during the charging process -- this is the main cause of death for NiMH batteries. Where NiCads fail through the memory effect as pointed out by Dave, they're not affected by heat. But if an NiMH battery is overheated during the charging process or during storage, it will no longer hold it's full 2400 mAH rated capacity. It may dwindle to less than 1500 mAH.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 22:05:34

Bruce - Thanks for the understanding !

Edited by - on

Captain Bill
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2011 : 12:45:53

Gads, now it sounds like I need an associates degree in electricity just to keep my solar vent going. I too, bought a solar/battery vent about 5 years ago. Last summer I bought a replacement battery, also from WM but haven't installed it yet but I need to. Hope it works.

Dave, I also use a 40 watt bulb on 24/7. It works well, no mildew, musty smell, etc. With our mild winters, it's all we need to keep moisture under control.

Bill

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2011 : 13:17:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Captain Bill
 ...I also use a 40 watt bulb on 24/7. It works well, no mildew, musty smell, etc...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Better buy a lifetime supply of those bulbs--quickly!

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5371 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 21:50:27

I installed a Nicro vent last summer during the West Marine sale (got it for $99, reg $159).

So it has been working all winter long, including last weekend, but today when I down to the boat, the fan had quit running. I would have to assume that the battery has a longer operating life than a year!!!! Solar panel is clear of obstructions and shadows, so that's not the problem. Fan is running free and not binding. On-off switch seems to work fine. I have no idea what the trouble is.

I checked the voltage and current, and batteries are virtually dead, while the solar panel is immersed in Sunlight all winter and now into the spring. Any thoughts what may be happening?

Edited by - on

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