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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

water in keel problem

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steve25
1st Mate

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USA
27 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/27/2011 : 09:38:16

A few years ago when I purchased her, the PO allowed water to enter the cabin while on the hard. The water then found it's was into the keel as the keel bolts had not been properly maintained. During the course of winter freezing cracks in the keel became evident. I sanded them down to remove the crack and then epoxied over them. What I didn't account for is that there was still water in there.

I have since redone the area around the keel bolts so that no water can go either in or out.

However I still had the problem with water in the keel. So, when she was put back on the hard last fall, I drilled a hole near the bottom of the keel. I was happy to see the water draining out, and left the hole.

Now I'm not sure if I should epoxy over the hole, or use a plug. (west marine t-handle plug) for example.

Has anyone had a similar experience, and or solution?

Thanks,

1986 C-25 SR/FK #5427

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2011 : 09:53:15

Steve,

Someone is bound to answer this. You might search the term "catalina smile" in the interim.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2011 : 12:53:38

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm completely puzzled. You have a swing keel ("SK"), and water has collected somewhere--do you mean the bilge, and you've drilled a hole in something to let water run "out"--a hole the keel trunk? Is the water draining to the outside of the hull? The "keel" is the big hunk of cast iron that swings up into the fiberglass trunk--the hump in the bottom. Can you be more specific on where this hole is? If it's through the trunk, it probably needs more than just epoxy, and a plug could be risky--especially if it can be bumped by the keel.

As I said, I'm puzzled--shooting in the dark.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2011 : 13:14:48

T?hink maybe you've nisread it Dave. 1986 C-25 SR/FK #5427 Standard Rig/Fixed (maybe fin) keel???

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steve25
1st Mate

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USA
27 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2011 : 13:26:46

Sorry for the confusion, not sure why I had SK rather than FK.

It is a fixed keel. The hole I drilled was at the bottom of the fixed keel (see red X)

The water originally entered the keel from the bilge around the keel bolts. I have since sealed that area.

The only way (that I knew of) to get the remaining water out of the keel was to drill a hole near the bottom.

Assuming that all the cracks are patched and that no more water will ever enter the keel, I suppose that closing the hole permanently is the way to go. I have heard that some sailboats have a plug in the keel. I have not seen any and was wondering if anyone else had this problem etc

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2011 : 13:50:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 T?hink maybe you've nisread it Dave. 1986 C-25 SR/FK #5427 Standard Rig/Fixed (maybe fin) keel???<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Me thinks he edited his signature.

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steve25
1st Mate

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USA
27 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2011 : 13:53:43

He did in fact change the signature. :)

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2011 : 15:04:18

OK, got it. The "Catalina smile" shouldn't apply here--you have the encapsulated lead keel with stainless steel bolts (actually studs cast into the lead)--not the solid iron keel with the exposed seam at the stub on the hull. The encapsulation, assuming it's like my '85, is a fairly thick, fibrous material. I guess I can imagine water migrating around the bolts, across the top of the lead, and then down between it and the encapsulation layer, although I never detected that on mine. What was the material you drilled through? I suspect plain epoxy (or slightly thickened with micro-fibers) would seal it up fine.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/27/2011 15:08:24

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2011 : 12:50:49

If you look closely at the posted pic (with the "x" marking where he drilled) you can see what what appears to me to be a long straight crack (or something) on the margin between the keel sump and the keel. Plus it looks pretty clear that a somewhat large more irregular crack is at the forward edge of that margin. Is this something he should worry about, especially the possible separation at the margin, or just business as usual for Catalinas (smile, etc)?

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2011 : 13:24:59

I sorta see what Ryan's talking about... perhaps a ding on the forward edge, and a the hint of a straight "irregularity" along the bottom of the stub (sump). It also appears something has flowed out of an opening along that line while the boat was on the hard--the dark vertical stain. If it can flow out there, it will flow in when the boat is floating, and perhaps re-fill the voids (?) in the encapsulation. That seam never appeared on my '85 keel--I don't remember seeing any sign of the keel-hull joint from the outside. Is that where you sanded and epoxied?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2011 : 20:07:00

Being that there is snow on the ground in his photo, I am assuming that he is far enough north that a couple seasons worth of freeze-thaw is worthy of mention. How long has there been water in teh FG on the keel?

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steve25
1st Mate

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USA
27 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2011 : 05:36:13

I sanded and epoxied everywhere that there was a crack.

As far as how long the water was in the keel, two seasons. The first spring I saw the cracks and sanded and epoxied them. But I didn't drill a hole to drain any water out. (mistake)

The second spring there was only minor cracks, which I sanded and filled. This fall I drilled the hole, so I'm hoping that by the spring all the water has drained and evaporated.

I guess that the question that I had was, is it better to just epoxy the hole I drilled, or try to install some sort of plug so I can insure that no water sits in the keel over the winter causing more cracks.

I think at this point, assuming that I am able to seal all the cracks, that I won't take a chance with the plug and just epoxy the hole I drilled.

The only question will be do I drill another hole next fall or hope that there isn't any water getting in.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9085 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2011 : 08:38:29

I'd probably drill another next fall. If it's dry, then you can consider not doing the same the following year.

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crowder.dr
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 18:57:19

Dont know guys, looks like the typical Catalina Smile to me. The dark stains look like moisure may have been trapped behind the previous epoxy repair causing rust. As for the drilled hole at the base of the cast fin leaking water I am at a loss. The keel is solid at that point and the only way water could get in or out is if IMHO someone covered the whole keel with glass and epoxy creating a void where water can collect. I would want to grind down that area to see exactly what is there.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2011 : 20:44:18

Crowder, in the later years (1984 +??) they switched from cast iron to a lead keel encapsulated in a FG shell.

This is a lead/FG keel. No rust issues with these later build-ups.

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crowder.dr
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2011 : 15:56:17

Thanks, so the stains are from an iteraction with the lead? I dont know why Catalina would go with such a poor design, but, I would still point the OP to the Catalina Smile Repair info and if as you say the keel is encapsulated in fiberglass then I would leave a plug in the bottom for the enevitable water that will seep in the next time the smile returns. Just my humble opinion.

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