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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

LED bulb failure

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/18/2011 : 11:27:20

My anchor light stopped working last winter. These LED bulbs are supposed to work for tens of thousands of hours. I had used the anchor light only a few hundred hours max over 3 years.

So Tuesday night I dropped the mast with an A-frame, like I did 3 years ago to originally install the anchor light fixture, the mast electrical harness, and a 32-LED bulb. Dropping the mast went smoothly.

Then Thursday night I removed the anchor light cover and checked the bulb. Here it is.

When it was new I could get all 32 diodes to glow brightly using 2 - 9V batteries in series (~18V), while 9V alone gave no light. It's made for 12V circuits. The bulb has 18 diodes on top and 14 diodes around the sides.

Here it is connected to 2 old 9V batteries in series that now produce 17.4 V DC, which is enough to make it burn brightly. But now only 4 of the 18 light emitting diodes work on the top.

And only 6 of the 14 diodes around the sides work.

I am surprised that the bulb itself has now malfunctioned, although it's the easiest part of the anchor light to fix!

I would suppose that the estimated lifespan of LED bulbs is based on use at room temperature and 50% humidity, instead of a range of -10 to +100 deg F, a range of 0 to 100% humidity, and with the fixture often roasting in the summer sun.

I'll be able to see this weekend if changing the bulb is all I need. I'd be interested to hear about your experience with LED anchor lights. Has anyone else seen an LED bulb fail with so little use?

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Edited by - JohnP on 03/18/2011 11:36:36

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 13:14:14

I put a DrLed buld in a garage lamp and it failed in about a year. Another Expensive device that "they" claim will last years and becomes a waste of money. I don't trust many of the "cluster" type led bulbs.

I'm gonna put one up from bebe pretty soon, if it lights up properly.

So many New products slapped together in China..

I'm sure LEDs will help us greatly in the future. Right now it seems to be vaporware.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 13:18:21

I haven't personally seen it, but I've read hundreds of reviews when searching for general LED bulbs. It seems there's lots of crap out there and you have to be careful when buying LED's. The LED itself might last forever, but the wiring and mount it's using may not be put together very well.

It might be best to use an incandescent up there since it's hard to get to, and use cheap LED's everywhere else.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/18/2011 13:19:27

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 20:36:25

My Son professionally manages the installation of LED lighting for major upgrades of apartment buildings and commercial buildings all over the USA.

I showed him my now defunct LED anchor light that has been in place since 2007. So it has traveled more than 1,000 miles on the back of our trailed boat.

Anyway, just to show the change in technology, here's the latest version:

[url="https://www.professorled.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=94"]

[/url]

Paul

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2011 : 20:46:41

I wonder if lightning or static discharge might be involved?

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Downbucket
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 05:53:45

Hi John:

I went to the New England Boat Show in Boston last month and talked with a vendor about the Lunasea LED. I learned that if an LED is going to be used for navigation it must be designed for that purpose i.e. waterproof. I was impressed with the Lunasea nav LED and will be replacing my nav bulb with it. It's pricey (about $50) but I'm going to give it a try.

Now, if it would only stop snowing here in Maine . . .

Will

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 09:41:02

Richard,
the LED is the lower, dome shaped, lamp. The upper part is a reflective cone, so the yellow shown in the graphic is just a reflection of the lower LED.

Paul

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 10:04:05

I wonder if that Lunasea (or similar Dr. LED like Paul's) bulb will be bright enough inside a white plastic anchor light cover... In any case, even at $40 (in Defender's warehouse sale), I'd like to see it come down to Earth--maybe in a couple more years.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/19/2011 10:06:23

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3473 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 14:53:16

I have an OGM Orcagreen LED Anchor light that is USCG approved. It also has a photodiode that shuts it off when the sun comes up. It was installed during Fall/Winter 2005 and works fine but I have not used it all that much. USCG only certifies complete light housings. However, this thing is pricey compared to just a bulb replacement and I noticed from the link below that the cost has gone up, up and up since I paid much less than what is listed. It is not a cluster light. It has one LED in it and a bunch of circuitry that works it's magic. It is certified for 2NM.

https://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16142& cat=0& bestseller

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 18:13:02

My modified anchor light included a mirror similar to the one Paul showed that reflects the light out horizontally. I built the oak base to fit the light onto the windex arm and feed the wire through the assembly.

I cut a slot in the conical mirror to also illuminate the windex:

The parts of the anchor light worked together just fine for a long time, but now it's dead!

Thanks, Larry, for the info. But it may be more cost effective to replace the bulb periodically. Mine cost a total of about $25, and these bulbs are now $5-10 each. I've ordered a replacement LED bulb with twice the diode count. Hope it works ok.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3473 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2011 : 21:44:49

Agree ! It is cost effective to replace the bulb. I am still curous as to why it failed. I think there is a lot to still be learned about how these LEDs function. I believe I read somewhere that LEDs do not like fluctuating voltage, etc but I do not see that as an issue with the install typically on our boats. All marketing hype indicates these LEDs shoud last a long time...so what gives ? Need to get more info on their characteristics. Would be great if your posting thread has some staying power and we get more inputs..and we all learn a bit more.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2011 : 05:07:22

I have a feeling that it's not the LED's that are failing, but the circuitry that is corroding and failing.

My old LED, the one shown above with the 4 clusters of LEDs on circuit boards is showing signs of surface corrosion on the copper(?) IC connections/surface wiring.

I'll take a pic of both lamps side by side before installing the new one.

At present, I have to raise the mast to test the lamp in position to rule out any issues with the mast wiring.

I'll run a ohm's test on the wires before pulling the mast up, but nothing beats an insitu test.

Paul

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2011 : 09:17:55

Update on the LED anchor light:

I tested the switch, fuse, interior wire, through-deck fitting, mast wiring harness, and anchor light fixture, and they were in perfect condition after 3 1/2 years of use. The LED bulb was the only failed component.

I now have a 68-LED, 12V, tail-light bulb in the same fixture, but the cute mirror I fashioned out of a piece of aluminum roof flashing no longer fits. The anchor light now seems to be about twice as bright as with the previous bulb. Also, 8 of the LED's are on top so they illuminate the windex very brightly, which I find convenient for night sailing.

The new bulb cost $10 from FactoryKiss Company in Hong Kong. It's burned about 2 hours so far, and counting...

One benefit to dropping the mast and removing the mast wiring harness to check its continuity was that I was able to finally install 3 zip ties every foot or so along the length of the wire to stop the slapping inside the mast. I was surprised how loud that was over the last 3 years, and I was concerned that the wire itself could have been broken by that repetitive movement over 3 years. Luckily, not so.

The second benefit to dropping the mast was being able to change the original steaming light fixture for a steaming light/deck light combo, and to make use of the 4th wire in the wiring harness.

But using no lights at all, I was able to go sailing in the beautiful 75 degree weather on Easter afternoon on the Bay, until a thunderstorm blew in during the evening.

Edited by - JohnP on 04/26/2011 09:19:35

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2011 : 09:44:01

we finally got our lights allworking this past weekend as well. Still driveway sailing, but now we can do it at night without worries of collisions.

Just one question. I may have misunderstood your posts, are you saying you sail with the anchor light on at night?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2011 : 09:56:50

Yes. When it's pitch black with no moon and it's really blowing, I find it safer to see the windex all the time. Many sailboats in this area sail with the anchor light lit up at night.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2011 : 10:26:52

Many people roll through stop signs and blast traffic lights turning red too. A white "all around" is a powerboat regardless of how many sailors show an anchor light when not anchored outside of a designated anchorage.

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2011 : 11:06:32

The reason I repaired my anchor light is to use it for anchoring out.

So, I'll keep the anchor light off when sailing and use a flashlight to see the windex. I agree that it's bad practise to look like a powerboat when sailing at night.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2011 : 18:12:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 The reason I repaired my anchor light is to use it for anchoring out.

So, I'll keep the anchor light off when sailing and use a flashlight to see the windex. I agree that it's bad practise to look like a powerboat when sailing at night.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well it's actually more than that. If you have your stern light AND anchor light on, someone coming from astern will see two white lights which means something else altogether, like a tender doing work or something (I don't have the resources to look it up right now.) If your stern light is burned out, I think an anchor light can substitute, but to be fully legal you should run your motor.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2011 : 05:37:58

Thanks for the constructive criticism!

That's what I appreciate about this Association. I would never have been able to attempt these mods and repairs without this helpful discussion, and I hope to sail safely and follow the regs to the best of my ability.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2011 : 07:27:33

Everyone at our lake sails with the anchor light on at night. EVERYONE We like it better so we do it. The lake looks beautiful at night with a dozen sailboats out, the anchor light creates a triangle of lights that identifies us as sailboats. Regardless of regs, it is absurd to think that an anchor light 30-40 feet off the deck can be confused with a powerboat's light 4 feet off the deck so we do the logical thing and use our anchor lights to identify us as sailbaosts and illuminate our Windexes which are very important in Kansas wind.

If any of us were on a navagable waterway I am sure we would all follow regs... but we don't have to on a small lake.

Edited by - pastmember on 04/27/2011 08:01:12

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2011 : 08:41:54

Yepper.. everybody does that up here on our lake, and it is a big lake, and it is pretty. Personally I would not do it on the intercoastal, I think the coast Guard Might visit you.

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