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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Distressed Gudgeon

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fredhillmann
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/21/2011 : 12:12:41

Guys:

I've just discovered that one of the bolts on the lower rudder gudgeon on my C-25 has failed, and the the gudgeon itself has pulled away from the hull. I'd like to replace the gudgeon but am uncertain as the other bolts. The inboard side of the transom in way of this lower gudgeon has been glassed over.

Any ideas or advice?

Fred

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 12:24:36

Fred,
To adequately answer this question you need to provide the year model. It would also help if you give more information on what you mean by "glassed over".

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 03/21/2011 12:25:28

fredhillmann
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 12:43:57

Sorry Hull #3385, DOB 1982.

By glassed over, I mean that I see no bolts or nuts on the inside of the transom, only what looks like woven roving.

F.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 12:57:08

In that case I would try to back out the original bolts and see if you have self threading type bolts or encapsulated nuts. If you have self threading type bolts I would seal the holes and drill for new thru-the transom bolts. If you have standard bolts the encapsulated nuts may still be usable. Replacing/removing them would be a chore that someone else can offer better advice than I.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 13:02:34

My recollection of my boat is that the gudgeon bolts went into threaded bronze plates that were glassed over in the inside of the transom. If I were replacing gudgeons, I'd drill through the holes in the plates (probably taking out the threads), leave them as backers, and install bolts with washers and nylock nuts.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/21/2011 13:05:56

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 17:33:53

And after you've got the holes drilled out - be prepared to fine tune the alignment of the gudgeon you are reinstalling. Alignment has to be near perfect to avoid binding.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 18:04:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 My recollection of my boat is that the gudgeon bolts went into threaded bronze plates that were glassed over in the inside of the transom. If I were replacing gudgeons, I'd drill through the holes in the plates (probably taking out the threads), leave them as backers, and install bolts with washers and nylock nuts.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree with putting inside reenforcements rather than relying on glassed in threaded plate. I have found that large washers with a 2nd washer slightly smaller follered by the nut is not as strong as a single dedicated backing plate inside for all the bolts.

In California, power reaching under star-cut chute I broke Confetti's original rudder in two. When we made it back to port at Ventura, I also found similar damage to Fred's to the lower gudgeon, and ended up adding a 2nd lower pintle and gudgeon when I installed the new rudder. That was well over 30 years ago and the rudder and fittings are still working fine despite having cracked a few tilers trying to control roundups...... When I added the new fittings I added the inside backing plates.

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2011 : 19:29:27

I ground down the glass and goop from around the gudgeon nuts, then fabricated a SS backing plate and installed a new gudgeon and fasteners.

Edited by - pastmember on 03/21/2011 19:30:40

michaelj
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2011 : 03:07:29

I replaced both of my gudgeons a couple of summer ago and it is a chore. You have to create an access port in the transom to get to the top one. In both the top and botom the nuts are encapsulated and there is a threaded plate or something in the transom. I used a Dremel tool and a chisel and chipped and ground until the nuts were exposed. I made a backing plate out of aluminum for both. My personal opinion is that if you are going to do one you should probably do both of them.

Edited by - on

fredhillmann
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2011 : 06:20:07

To all:

Thanks. I'm grateful for all the tips and suggestions. I'm only sorry that I discovered this problem about a week before I was scheduled to launch! Thanks again.

Fred

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2011 : 07:06:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fredhillmann
 To all:

Thanks. I'm grateful for all the tips and suggestions. I'm only sorry that I discovered this problem about a week before I was scheduled to launch! Thanks again.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fred,

Think of it this way.... LOTS better a week BEFORE launch than a week AFTER launching!!!!

Cheers! Chuck

Edited by - on

Patrice C25
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2011 : 12:13:20

Or postpone a week for launch, and still be in the water 1st week of april. :-)
Think a bit about us, still looking at snow falling right now !!! :-(

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2011 : 12:34:30

You can fix it in the water if you need to.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2011 : 13:19:31

I think Frank just likes posting big a** pictures.

Hey Frank, having that velcro strape around the top of the swim ladder makes it kinda tough to reach when you're in the water.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2011 : 18:28:14

Careful, you may need one of Frank's catalogue of C-25 project and example photos some day. If you are thinking of doing something to your boat, Frank has probably done it and photographed the process.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2011 : 04:15:39

<< Franks Big Photos full of info >>

Ya got that right ... I've learned as much from Frank's shots as from Dave's clarifications. Can't tell ya how much help these guys ( and others )have been, especially given they are no longer cat 25 owners, they still pitch in with timely help.

Ask me which boat I'd buy and I'll tell them Catalina, because of the incredible help coming from the Association Forum.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2011 : 07:27:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I'd like to replace the gudgeon but am uncertain as the other bolts.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you are going to replace the gudgeon with the newer style with the plastic sleeve the alignment is very critical. I did this project last fall when my lower pintle strap snapped. I found that the original pintle/gudgeon were not aligned very well but they didn't have to be for the original set up. With the new gudgeon's they have to be in line or the rudder will not be able to be installed or will bind. I had to fill and re-drill my new pintles to get them in line vertically. I did all the aligning/re-drilling by dry fitting everything first. Then I took it all apart,Aplied 4200, Re-assembled everything but left all the bolts just snug.I re-hung the rudder, Put a car floor jack under the rudder to just take the weight of the rudder off and to provide up or down adjustment until everything was aligned then tightened up all the bolts on the pintles and gudgeon's. The end result came out great, The rudder swings freely without binding and mounts on and off easily. The bottom gudgeon and pintle are under great stress just look at the picture.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2011 : 14:58:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 I think Frank just likes posting big a** pictures.

Hey Frank, having that velcro strape around the top of the swim ladder makes it kinda tough to reach when you're in the water.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I guess I need to post bigger pictures, that is not a velcro strap, it is a rope with a long tail on a hitch, pull the tail and the ladder comes down. Someone on the forum told me to do that... probably Leon!

As for Dave and I being so much help... well we enjoy contributing what we can to a great community, But Leon Sisson was, is and always will be THE MAN!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2011 : 16:03:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...well we enjoy contributing what we can to a great community, But Leon Sisson was, is and always will be THE MAN!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Second that! Leon's swinger is probably the most fundamentally sound C-25 on the planet, and he has contributed greatly here over the years, showing us how it should be done--in great detail.

Edited by - on

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