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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Porta Potty or Marine Head?

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/30/2011 : 21:52:02

I've got a marine head. It hasn't been used in at least 3 years though. The PO never used it, so before I use it I'm sure it'll need a rebuild kit applied to it. I can do that or just buy a whole new unit for $179 (I'd probably do that). I've looked at the holding tank and lines. They seem to be just fine. They're flexible still and clean enough, but wont know for sure until I test it out.

OR...I could just install a porta-potty instead.

I'm at a decision point...fix up the marine head system, or just pull it and put in a porta-potty.

What do you guys have? One better than the other?

Scott

When we left, we had just enough fuel to make it to San Juan. And now... we are out of fuel!

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 05:07:25

My ex-boat had a marine head (requirement from the admiral) in sad shape and the pump was on the fritz. So we bought a new one (found a sale for $150) rather than replace the pump. If the head is clean then a rebuild kit may be enough. If the hoses are old and the black rubber kind, they are probably permeated. You may not notice if they have been dry for too long; put a hot wet rag over one and see what it smells like. I replaced the main hose with a new head-specific one and it helped with smells. Also your holding tank is probably dead from being dry, you should re-start it with some enzyme.

Edited by - ilnadi on 03/31/2011 05:07:42

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 05:15:48

I have a porta-potty only cause I don't have a local pumpout, like the extra space, and don't see the boat as much as I'd like. But I think if I had a pump-out and water outlet closer to me, then I'd install a marine head. They're nice as long as you have time to take care of them well.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/31/2011 05:17:19

Patrice C25
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 06:24:53

Have the marine one and happy with it.
We do have pumpout facility at the marina, good point to check for one nearby.
If buying a kit or a new one, I would go for a new one.
The kit is expensive, and if the head as not been used for a while....you will have to get two kit, one for the pump and one with all the gasket and on....
And while playing in that area, I'll go ahead and change plumbing at the same time and be trouble free for long.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 07:38:24

Enzymes? Guess I better read up on a marine head.

I thought it would be like the head I had in my travel trailer....just dump a bottle of Thetford blue in with some starter water and I'm good till I dump it. (pump it out)

No?

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 07:45:13

Marine head is the best way to go.... Portable head, maybe 6 gallons of holding. No more.... Flexy tank or otherwise much more or at least enlargeable....

Here is how you rehab it.... Oil and vinegar.... Not at the same time. Oil to lube the pump and vinegar to cure what ails the hoses and tanks et al... The enzyme products work, and as a cruiser for almost 4 years now, I can assure you that will want to use Scott single ply, otherwise you will have a problem. Cheaper than WM stuff and has not clogged up our system yet, while other brands have.... The enzyme stuff will break down the paper if you get a minor clog, but a major one will be nasty....

sten

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 07:53:43

According to the Texas Sea Grant site at tamu:

CANYON
Canyon Lake Marina (830) 935-4333
Cranes Mill Marina (830) 899-7718

So, Canyon has two pump out stations. All of the marinas on Eagle Mountain (my lake) have them.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 08:01:58

I replaced the porta potty when I bought my 250, the wife said she would'nt use a used porta potty, and I wasn't excited about dealing with it. I replaced it with a Raritan like I had on a previous boat and installed a holding tank and hoses, bought the best hose I could find. Don't buy cheap hose, you'll regret it. Rebuilding a marine head is an easy, though sometimes distasteful, job. Rebuild kits normally will have all the parts you need, disasemble the head, clean everything then put it all back together

Never heard of holding tanks and enzymes, not sure what that's about, it's not like a septic tank. Add the blue fluid for odor control.

If a marine head becomes hard to pump you might add a little vegetable oil to some water in the bowl, then pump, that will lube the rubber parts and make it much easier and smoother to pump. Worked for me for years.

Of course you'll need a pumpout station available if you decide to go with the marine head.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 08:11:18

I think it depends on how you'll use the boat. If you use it for extended on-board time, the head, with a macerator, may be a better option. But, it is a complex system that requires a fair amount of maintenance.

The porta-potti, on the other hand, it has little to maintain and has very few working parts and is easily emptied. No, it's not as bad as it sounds. The proper chemicals eliminate the odors and other unpleasantries.

I'm a porta-potti guy, less maintenance means more sailing time.

BTW, my marina's fuel dock has a pump-out station with an attachment that can empty my porta-potti if I choose.

Edited by - John Russell on 03/31/2011 08:13:57

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 08:12:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 According to the Texas Sea Grant site at tamu:

CANYON
Canyon Lake Marina (830) 935-4333
Cranes Mill Marina (830) 899-7718

So, Canyon has two pump out stations. All of the marinas on Eagle Mountain (my lake) have them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yea, both of those are on the south and middle part of the lake, whereas I'm on the far north end. It just seemed like a hassle to travel over there, especially if I really had to at the moment.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 12:30:05

I have a manual marine head with holding tank and am happy with it. I will probably go electric this year to make the Admiral happier. P/S reviewed small electrics last month.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 12:37:06

I mistyped, I meant aerobic bacteria, not enzymes. You need to make sure there is enough air and bacteria in there to break stuff down and "overwhelm the anaerobic bacteria" (Check out "Get rid of boat odors" by Peggie Hall, a.k.a. Head Mistress).

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 18:50:53

I've got a marine head on Andiamo and rarely use it. When I first bought the boat I didn't know the PO had left the holding tank almost full and the smell would knock you down when you opened up the boat.

I finally got tired of the smell and went to the pump out station. That's when I found out how full the tank was. Since that time I never smell anything when I open up the boat.

If you sail in salt or brackish water DO NOT use water from the bay/ocean. The organisms in the water will make your tank stink to high heaven. Carry on water just to use for the head. It will make all the difference.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 19:41:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...If you sail in salt or brackish water DO NOT use water from the bay/ocean. The organisms in the water will make your tank stink to high heaven. Carry on water just to use for the head. It will make all the difference.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...or plumb it to your water tank. That's how mine is. Generally you need a quart or much less per flush. I agree--every friend with salt water going to their head has an unmistakable sulfurous "essence" in their boat. I guess they get used to it, but I haven't.

(Oh--I just remembered... Scott is on a TX lake.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/31/2011 19:45:46

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 21:01:18

Yeah, I've got fresh water to bring in.

I read another thread where marine heads only last 5 years or so before they have to be rebuilt or more likely replaced. If this is true then I should only consider buying the new Jabsco for $179 and installing it rather than cleaning/rebuilding and pouring vegetable oil in, then some vinegar....?

So, if I do replace the marine head, should I go ahead and replace hoses as long as I'm at it, or just the head and fire up the system and see how it does? I would think the water intake would be okay since it's flexible and hopefully seals, but maybe the evacuation hose and pump out hose should be replaced. It's not a difficult system to work on. When I inspected the boat before purchase I did operate the seacock...it opened and closed properly and did not leak, but I didn't operate the head because the PO said it hadn't been used in 3 years.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2011 : 21:08:32

Scott,

The pump on my head started leaking last year and I looked into getting a rebuild kit from WM. The rebuild kit was something like $75.00 and a new head was $150.00. Took me approx. 30 minutes to remove and replace the old head with a nice new shiny/clean head.

I didn't change my hoses so can't speak to that issue.

Edited by - GaryB on 03/31/2011 21:08:52

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 08:18:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 I read another thread where marine heads only last 5 years or so before they have to be rebuilt or more likely replaced.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My boat came to me with a marine head. I have poured mineral oil down the bowl every once in a while, but maintenance-wise, that's about all I've ever done in the past ten trouble free years. Who knows how long it's been in the boat? Original 1980 maybe?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 10:06:10

We do not have pump-out facilites at our marina. We purchaed a MSD style porta-potti which allows for an optional connection to the deck fitting - which is required when we are in Canadian waters.

Best of both worlds you might say.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 10:42:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 We do not have pump-out facilites at our marina. We purchaed a MSD style porta-potti which allows for an optional connection to the deck fitting - which is required when we are in Canadian waters.

Best of both worlds you might say.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Are you saying that it connects and/or pumps to an external holding tank? I might be interested in that. My marina does have pump-out, but it's out of order ~80% of the time. Would be nice if I could pick it up and take it with me in those cases.

Is this what you have?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 11:14:00

The holding tank that comes with the porta-potti has an extra fitting that you connect the hoses from the deck pump-out fitting.

This says it's designed for permanent installation - but you can install it like a portable - removable unit also:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|806|81394&id=435205

Beware of the Thetford brands as they only offer plastic securing hardware which does not work on close-hauled sailboats!!! Dometic has metal securing hardware.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 11:34:18

I have this kind (Sealand 711), which is a porcelain throne on top of a 9-gallon tank, bolted to the sole and hooked up to my pressurized fresh water system. Pull the pedal up and it puts some water in the bowl. Push it down and it flushes, opening a large ball-valve into the tank. It's vented and has a deck pumpout. (I also have a macerator on a Y valve.) No hose between the head and the tank. And not the slightest hint of an odor.

BTW, if your hoses aren't shiny white, replace them with the $11/foot stuff--the only thing to use on a head installation. (The water supply can be cheaper stuff).

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:07:43

I've seen the porta potties that are equipped for deck pump out....they have a fitting on the back of the tank the deck hose fits to.

I'm gonna do this:

Replace the head with a new unit, replace the head hose to the tank and the fresh water intake hose from the seacock under the V berth. Couple hours work and a couple hundred dollars and I should have a functioning head.

There's a small plastic device inline between the seacock and the head. It's about the size of a soup can, plastic, has 4 mounting holes at the corners of the base (not mounted) and a wire coming out of it....quite possibly it is my "mystery switch", a 12v pull knob located above the AC breaker on the galley wall....the plastic "thing" says "Toilette Helper" or something like that on the end of it....

Any guesses to what this is? Pressurized fresh water system?

Edited by - on

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