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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Advice request

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/18/2011 : 08:51:14

My 2001 250, PRETTY PENNY, has been "on the market" for the last four months, brokered by Catalina Yachts in Marina del Rey, also on Yachtworld and Craig's List. Not one offer. She's listed for $17,500.00. What, in your collective opinions, could I do to secure a sale in the next 30 days? Thanks in advance.

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 08:59:43

Frank, without a listing of what on Pretty Penny makes offering suggestions a bit difficult. I will say that if your current asking price is a boat without a trailer that you're a bit high for the current market.

This said, a new member of the forum, Carol Baker, created the forum topic Bow High. Carol lives in Portland Ore and recently a purchased a 2001 WK. To get a feel of what's selling on our left coast you might contact Carol to see what the going price is up her way for a boat close to or exactly like yours.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 09:58:32

No trailer, Bob. Here are the specs:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/2329900025.html

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 10:02:48

Frank, I looked at the other Yachtworld C250 listings on the west coast and I think you might be priced a bit high. We, on this forum, know how well you've maintained it and somebody will get a great boat but, you might not get the price you're asking.

Have you thought about Ebay? You could list it with a reserve price -- you're absolute bottom line.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 11:30:38

I am not real familiar with C250, but the price is rather high. A good Catalina 30 could be had for a couple thousand more and would be a better ocean boat. I am actually surprised the brokerage didn't advise you to offer a lower price.

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 11:41:56

Catalina 250 WK circa '99 to 2001 or two with a trailer sell for about 17 to 19K. New the trailers go for a bit over 7,500. Used they've been selling for anywhere between 3 and 5 thousand. Subtract at least a grand, maybe two but no more than 3 thousand from your current asking price and you should get some action. A lower price will undercut 250's with trailers.

Edited by - on

Carol Baker
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 11:51:51

I bought my C250WK 2001 through a broker for 16500 last October. It was more than I was planning to pay, of course, but it has all the features I wanted plus some extras like a furling main and self tailing winches, all basically like new. No trailer. I tried to talk it down, but the seller held firm, and all this at the end of the sailing season up here. I don't know what to say, but maybe some love-struck buyer may come along in the nick of time.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 12:21:25

I've never sold a boat before, but I've sold three houses. The #1 rule is to get traffic as quickly as possible. One great way to get traffic is an attractive price. Then people will come to your boat first, before others' boats.

I did this with houses, and every one of them sold in less than 2 weeks for between asking price and asking+$2000. When you have multiple buyers, you are in control and can get your asking price - or more.

I am not guaranteeing that this will work for you, but if you really want to turn this thing around in 30 days, your best tool is price. Think hard about what is the minimum you will accept for it, and consider pricing the boat as close to that price as you can instead of the usual tactic of asking 25-30% higher than your bottom line price. You'll undoubtedly get some bottom-fishers who will still offer 20-30% less than your asking price, but they (and your broker) can't make you accept their offer. Just stand firm and have confidence that someone will appreciate the condition of your boat enough to pay your asking price.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 12:32:46

Based on all your comments, I'm reducing the price to $16,500.00
Thanks.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 14:48:23

And if you are paying fees to keep the boat in the water, they add up and reduce the value of what you get from the sale.

Paul

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 15:13:37

Just for another data point, we bought SL four years ago for $17.3k with a trailer and lots of sails. We have an agreed price with our insurance company of $22k after adding a new OB and other stuff. I think it would be very difficult to get our money back out of the boat in this market.

I hope your price reduction gives you the traffic you're hoping for.

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 19:03:08

Frank,
Good luck and all that. I realize that you'll be clearing 11-12k after the brokerage fee. Did you try craigslist et. all?
Now that we're on the topic, why is it that our boats fetch so little? Seems like 6-8 year older catalina 25s are fetching simillar prices as ours. I think the 250 got a bad rap somewhere down the line (does a certain practical sailor review ring a bell) from which they were never really ever able to recover. I think this is a real shame (all though I did not feel this way when I was a buyer!).

Vern Wright

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 19:12:20

The 25's don't get that much Vern. I bought my 89 wing 5 years ago without trailer for 10.2 (a little high on price). Somebody MIGHT get 12 - 12.5 for an impeccable 90 wing/trailer I'm thinking.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 21:26:23

Vern, which issue of Practical Sailor slammed the 250? Yes, I'm on Craig's List, only two responses to date, no follow ups. Bottom line: since I'm paying 150 a month slip fee, in addition to the 370 for my Catalina 30, if I don't sell by the end of May, I'll donate the boat to a charity and take a tax write off.

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 05:25:28

Frank,
I can't remember the specific issue. I believe I read the article archived on a texas sailing web-site or even Alryn's site. It was a review of the 1995 water ballast model and many felt that it was rather biased. You can see the beginning of the article for free if you search the PS site. You have to pay 10.00 to read the whole thing. Also there was no review or mention at all of the wk version. The review in cruising world (of the wb) was not particularly flattering either. See link.http://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/boat-reviews/catalina-250 Again no mention made of the the wk. The best review was the comparison of the bremmer and the 250 in cruising world http://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/boat-reviews/catalina-250-keel-and-bremer-25.

How does the whole tax write off thing work? You would deduct 10k from your over- all tax liability?

Any way, good luck. Have seen a number of 250's in my area for about 13.5 on craigslist. Not much movement. I just don't think people are buying much these days.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 09:33:23

You can only deduct the amount the charity sells the boat for, not its fair market value. Interesting that when I bought the boat in '05, it was brokered for $28,000.00. The dealer encouraged me to make an offer. I did: $18,000.00 and the seller accepted!
Also of interest, since all 250's are now made in Largo, Florida, that adds about 6 grand to the price here on the Left Coast.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 10:38:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by AADIVER
 Interesting that when I bought the boat in '05, it was brokered for $28,000.00. The dealer encouraged me to make an offer. I did: $18,000.00 and the seller accepted!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow! You stole that boat in 05!

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 11:52:56

Many of the deficiencies noted in the CW review were addressed in later versions, including 3G rudder and wing keel. I had seen all of those reviews before I bought, and they did cause me to "stick my nose up" at it for awhile before I realized I did not want anything bigger or older.

Edited by - TakeFive on 04/19/2011 12:29:57

Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 12:29:28

You can quote that at least one of us was <s>fool</s> game enough to take a 250 WB across the gulf stream to Bimini - And back

Paul

Edited by - on

Carol Baker
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 13:35:39

I would Very Much like to hear about that!!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 13:49:20

Frank, I just wanted to wish you luck. I know how hard it is. I tried to sell mine last year when the marina called to say they had a 30'+ slip for me. I had been on a waiting list for several years. I got no calls. Still happy with our C250, 80% of the time. But I have pretty much given up, at least for now.
Steve A
PS I hear its even harder to sail power boats now with the gas prices. Glad I am not in that situation.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 16:27:58

Here is my perspective on what happened. Catalina released the 250 in 1994 as a replacement to the C25 that had been discontinued in 1990 because the boat economy was in the tank, and there were 6000 C25s in existence and in that economy and excise tax era, it was impossible for Catalina to compete against the used market. Fiberglass boats just don't go bad that quickly.

The C250 had to offer something different than the used market offered and the primary element was a twenty five footer that was much easier to trailer and with a smaller vehicle. There were of course other things like no external teak to maintain, an open transom for much easier swimmer access, and a Euro look.

Another often not mentioned issue was that Catamaran sailing had a hay day in the eighties. There were a great many Cat sailors who were running their course of tramp sailing and now interested in a mono hull. These were sailors who used to an easy haul and set up for weekend sailing and otherwise storing their boat in the back yard rather than in a slip or on a mooring.

Also, the C22 had a very strong following, many of whom trailer sailed. It was likely believed that previous C22 owners would be interested in a twenty five footer that was as easy to haul and even easier to setup and launch.

There was not one mention in the release of the 250 that it would ever be other than a water ballast trailer sailor, and it is my belief there was no other vision when it was created.

Catalina in fairly typical fashion, released the boat without extensive testing. Frank Butler was a master at listening to owners and refining a boat from their practical experiences. That technique got the best of him and Catalina in regards to the 250... and especially after getting the bad write ups. The 250 had handling problems, but so did a good many other water ballast designs. Spread like wild fire was that water ballast didn't work.

Strangely, it wasn't water ballast, but the hull form needed to support it that was the problem... the hull form needed more rudder and every one of the water ballast players were caught with inadequate rudders on their water ballast designs. The damage of the water ballast doesn't work rumor like to put the end to the 250 and it is my personal belief that it was then that Catalina decided to save the design by introducing the wing keel.

The C250 had too many virtues to be lost and in the wing keel found a market albeit softer than previous markets for the C22 and C25 it was a market worth the effort. Catalina had previously saved the C25 by doing the same... when swing keeled C25's were outed for their safety issues making the selling of them far too great a liability to a new boat manufacturer.

In time, the stigma attached to water ballast lessened as the control problems of all the manufacturers were brought under control by rudders having greater ability to control the character of the designs.

As to Frank's situation, as said by others the market is soft. I've been more into model airplanes than sailing in the last eight years and have seen the same there in the last few years. My take is that discretionary financial resources are being pinched as the greatest cause. Since five years ago, our membership has declined by 40%.

Wishing you the best possible outcome Frank.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 16:54:16

Maybe when gas and diesel goes over 5 bucks a gallon in the very near future, stink potter's will get dumped in favor of rags and interest will gather steam for 250's. From my keyboard to God's eyes

Edited by - on

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