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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

preventing keel drop catastrophe?

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 09:48:21

At the dock, open your companionway hatch all the way and place a 2x2 or 2x4 board across the opening just behind the sliding hatch. Drop a weighted line overboard and measure the distance from the water to the board. Next, bring that same line in and lower it inside the boat the same distance. That should give you a good idea where the waterline is in relation to the keel trunk. My bet is that at least half of the keel trunk is below the waterline. That's also based on the repair I had to fix after my keel hit a buoy cable during a club race.

Edited by - dmpilc on 04/21/2011 09:50:24

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 10:18:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 At the dock, open your companionway hatch all the way and place a 2x2 or 2x4 board across the opening just behind the sliding hatch. Drop a weighted line overboard and measure the distance from the water to the board. Next, bring that same line in and lower it inside the boat the same distance. That should give you a good idea where the waterline is in relation to the keel trunk. My bet is that at least half of the keel trunk is below the waterline. That's also based on the repair I had to fix after my keel hit a buoy cable during a club race.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good tip David! I need to be sure an AC pump is mounted below the waterline, and I couldn't think of an accurate way to do it. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 12:12:43

The problem with the screen door closer is that it cycles every time you raise/lower the keel. That means sooner or later its gonna wear out - like a screen door closer. Mine needs replacing - thanks for the reminder.

If/when this thing wears out or breaks or what have you, how do you know? You don't - until the keel fails as well, leaving you scratching your head whilst the boat sinks. The preventer becomes another maintenance item.

The more I think of this, the more I convince myself that a remote install might be the ticket. since the failure occurs at the turning ball (I think) I wonder if a secondary cable could be attached which would either lead under the quarter berth or to the compression post, which would give about 5 feet of travel to either the hydraulic plunger or the extrusion model. In this case, you would have a pre-charged "screen door closer" with a window and a float. When deployed, the boatowner would see that the float had dropped, and know they needed to recharge teh plunger and fix the boat. Similarly, the extrusion version would have the extruder at the far end of the deformed material enclosed in a safety shield.

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 13:27:45

Hi all,
I am a Brazilian sailor, new to the US, new to Catalina World and I am starting a new career studying boat design at Westlawn.
I Bought a 1981 C25 SK in relatively good condition but in need of a lot of TLC and I plan to bring it up to pristine condition.

This topic just interested me a lot and I have my 2/100 on the subject.

To my understanding if there was a way to eliminate the wire it would be even better, so I did a little research and I came with the Idea of having some sort of endless screw to bring the keel up and down.
This would not only eliminate the wire it would provide a way of stopping the keel to any position between full up and full down. The downside is that if you do run aground or if you hit a submerged object the keel wont bounce up and down, but this bouncing is what started all this discussion in the first place, right?

I would love to here your opinions before I draw the system and install it on my boat for a a test.

Cheers

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 13:39:49

Interesting take on it Jean - basically an egg-beater style device to raise and lower the keel. I like it. You may even be able to motorize it to make things easier for folks.

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 13:57:48

That´s exactly what I am thinking about... The motor will be a second step...

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 15:19:02

Is the endless screw the same as a lead or ball screw? If so, having replaced more than a few of these on some equipment at work, I'm familiar with their operation. How are you thinking of positioning the screw? Same as the existing cable or at the forward part of the keel?

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2011 : 16:13:05

I see I may have got something nice here, I´ll draw what I am thinking and I´ll post it here for comments it should take me just a day or two so on monday I should have something to show.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2011 : 19:41:56

from the "keel winch failure" topic:
"He glassed over the entire trunk to reinforce and strengthen to the whole structure. To hear him tell it, the trunk was less than 1/4" thick."

1/4" thick isn't much. Seems to me if you built the trunk up to maybe twice that thickness it would have to help contain the damage. Might at least turn what would have been a large leak unto a small manageable leak??? Also wouldn't epoxy be stronger than what's there?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2011 : 08:07:48

"He glassed over the entire trunk..." that was my post. I also added an "after" pic that you might want to look at. I'm convinced that the keel trunk is much stronger now.

Edited by - dmpilc on 04/23/2011 08:09:16

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2011 : 18:30:57

This is slightly off the subject and may offend a few purists in the group but, I have often wondered why the old hand crank on swing keel boats aren't replaced by small electric winches. Especially winches with a remote control. There are several available for ORVs that would save a lot of hand labor, and allow one to raise and lower the keel from the cockpit.

Just a thought.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2011 : 20:34:57

I've wondered that too.

Seems like I've seen one or two electric winches that also had a place where you could put a crank handle if the motor failed or the battery went dead.

Edited by - on

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2011 : 07:25:07

Would an electric winch be more secure than this brake mechanism on the manual winches?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2011 : 07:37:58

It should be as long as you don't accidently pull the free wheel release. The winch is gear driven.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2011 : 13:52:58

And your battery never dies.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2011 : 15:25:34

That's why I suggested a couple of posts up to buy an electric winch with a separate hand crank.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/01/2011 18:57:52

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2011 : 07:06:24

Those currently on sale at harbor freight have an internal clutch brake as well as well as the "free-wheel" mechanism. They are certainly no less secure and be a much more efficient way to manage the swing keel....even from the cockpit. Think of the possibilities single handers.

Edited by - on

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