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Quick swing keel question

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Captnkev25
1st Mate

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USA
36 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/02/2011 : 09:59:54

I have a new to me 1984 C25 SR SW and was wondering the school of thought for running with the keel halfway down? I sail in the Great South Bay of Long Island so my depths greatly vary. I understand the danger of hitting an obstruction with the keel while halfway up and it letting go and smashing the trunk. Aside from that very real danger I wad wondering what other owners of this boat do. Is it always all up or all down?

Kevin (1984 C25 Standard Rig, Swing Keel, Traditional Interior)

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 10:05:00

Wouldn't that affect your degree of heel?

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 10:19:15

I sail with the keel all the way down. Tampa Bay is consistently deep enough that I don't have to worry though.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 10:27:43

I had a swinger and it was all the way down everywhere except the marina, which is shallow.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 12:40:02

I keep the keel all the way down all the time, with a slight tension on the cable. It is only raised if I hit bottom (extremely rare) or for haul-out.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 13:07:38

All the way down when under sail; sometimes I have it most of the way up when motoring tentatively through shallows, just leaving a couple of turns in reserve incase I do touch. Turning is sluggish while motoring with the keel up. Sailing with the keel up might have a slight advantage downwind, but the reduced righting moment in an unexpected jibe and the potential failure of the cable from the stress of repeated make it an unwise approach.

edit: All the way down is all the way down and then a couple of cranks back to tension the cable. It should be tight enough to start humming around 4 kts.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 05/02/2011 13:10:54

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 18:26:10

One thing I would worry about if I raised my swing keel is that my rudder could very well be the lowest part of the boat; so that if something WERE to contact the bottom it would be the rudder. Depending on the submerged obstruction that is impacted, I would think that it could rip the rudder off the back of the boat, leaving a sizable hole. On the other hand, running aground with the swing keel, which I have done, "might" be a bit more forgiving. Just something to think about.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 19:11:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
 One thing I would worry about if I raised my swing keel is that my rudder could very well be the lowest part of the boat; so that if something WERE to contact the bottom it would be the rudder.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Excellent point, Ben.

I had a beaching rudder on my swinger and with the keel up, there were a couple of times when it struck the bottom first that kicked the rudder up. If it were a solid rudder, like the C25's, it might have suffered more damage than a cast iron keel hitting the bottom.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2011 : 19:52:03

In addition to slightly reducing the righting moment with the keel part way up, you also have the possibility of inducing lee helm, where the boat turns away from the wind if you let go of the tiller. This is caused by moving the "center of lateral resistance" (CLR) aft relative to the "center of effort" (CE) of the sailplan, and is not desirable from a safety point of view--you want the boat to turn up and stop if unattended--not go into a jibe (or series of jibes). Lee helm also feels weird... If you're sitting on the windward side, you find yourself pushing on the tiller rather than pulling it. (I don't even like a neutral helm, which I would get in some conditions when sailing on the genny alone, which moves the CE forward.)

I should add that some C-250 WB owners have found that raising their centerboards slightly reduces excessive weather helm due to the same principle. Looking at the brochure drawings of the boat and comparing the wing to the centerboard, I can see why. If the wing is positioned correctly, the fully lowered board appears to be too far forward.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/02/2011 19:59:32

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2011 : 16:52:05

Hi Kevin,
Whisper's PO sailed the Great South Bay, and we discussed this issue, he sailed w/ the keel down and was vigilant about depth. He said that w/ a depth finder and GPS, and watching the charts, he didn't really have problems. The bottom of GSB is sandy and changes depth gently, so getting into thin water isn't particularly traumatic...just let out the sheets, raise the keel enough to float again, and get out of there!

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2011 : 09:09:45

Which is good reson to ensure your depth transducer is as far forward as possible.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.