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Raising Mainsail Single Handed--Catch 22

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/09/2002 : 02:38:13

Catch 22:
Once I motor out of my marina I have some difficulties raising the mainsail when single handing. My outboard is a short shaft which works fine on calm seas while I'm sitting at the back of the cockpit. If I try to motor slowly into the wind while I go forward to raise my mainsail the prop pops out, I lose headway, and I can't raise the main. I currently motor at top speed into the wind; set the autopilot to maintain my heading, cut off the motor then RUSH to put the mainsail up before I lose headway, THEN I roll out the jib.

I'm saving to purchase a new motor, but in the meantime I'd like to do some single handed sailing without the stress of rushing to raise the main. I've also got a Schaeffer wire roller jib which I can roll from the cockpit.

How can I raise the mainsail without the use of the motor and without anchoring? Should I roll out the jib, close haul into the wind, set the autopilot and raise the main on a canted deck? What's the recommended procedure on raising the main without outboard power?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - albert on 12/09/2002 02:39:23

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 05:14:13

Sounds like myself. I solo most of the time. Although I don't have the short shaft motor problem, I like to keep my motor off as much as posible. But I do have my main halyard run aft to the cockpit. If I don't raise the maine at anchor I get everything prepared to hoist the main while under the jib. Then turn into the wind and lock the Tiller Tamer down (I rarely use the Autotiller.) I've already got a couple of wrapps around the winch with the halyard. That way I can heave the line and when it get tight I crank the winch. As the line goes through the clutch it doesn't drop. At this point I loose the tiller and get on course. Then I trim the main. Sounds intense but it isn't.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 09:38:12

Albert,

I'm sure your problem is not an uncommon one among single handers. It is one of many trade-offs we have to make when balancing efficiency with available equipment. Like Ben my main halyard is led aft to the cockpit and I have a long shaft motor. I am not averse to using my motor as ofen as I need to to get the job done however. One example is bobbing around during a weekend cruise waiting for the wind to come up instead of motoring toward my destination until the wind does come up. Anyway, I wouldn't be to concerned about turning your motor off, slackening your main sheet and, while the boat still has some forward movement, going forward and raising the main. Do it slowly and deliberately though. I have found that a well thought out action accomplished without a lot of running, is accomplished much more quickly and safely than willy-nilly and in a rush.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 11:09:33

The key to the two responses above is the main halyard led back to the cockpit. I just did that, and it's a tremendous advantage, even when I have crew aboard. If you need to make a course correction with the main partially up, you can do it in a second, and then complete the hoist. And you don't need to worry about tripping and going overboard with just the jib set (which can negate weather helm and allow the boat to sail just about forever). The same with dousing, for which I set up a separate line to pull the main down the last few feet. I haven't set up a winch on the cabintop--I just give the halyard a good final tug and snap down the clutch. I suspect a racer would want the winch.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 12:16:32

<center>Raising Sails Single-Handed</center>

Albert,

I also single-hand a lot. I have an autopilot, an extra long shaft motor, and all control lines lead aft.

The autopilot, and motor are one answer (and the easiest) to getting the main up. You have my sympathies on the short shaft outboard, I had that setup on two previous boats.

I've also had good results from raising the jib first, as described by the others. Before I had the autopilot (and even now, just for practice), I start out by raising the jib first, just before releasing the dock lines, or just after getting the anchor on board. I then lash the tiller so as to sail as high and stable a reach as the jib alone with allow. I then raise the main, being careful not to get it caught under the spreaders or shrouds (hence the high reaching course). I get both sails up and working before fine tuning either of them.

I've not been happy with the results of raising the main at anchor in any but the calmest conditions, such as right after breakfast, before the sea breeze kicks in. I suppose if I were anchored close to a lee shore without a working engine, I'd have to do it that way.

As for using a cabin top winch to get the main halyard tight, I left room to install one aft of my starboard cabin top line clutches, but I've stumbled on an alternative. When the main is most of the way up, I need a bit of extra tension to get the shackle right up to the masthead.

After closing the clutch, I then lead the main halyard tail to the nearest primary winch, and take a couple of turns. I can then tug sideways on the halyard between the clutch and winch to raise the main another inch or two at a time. This doesn't involve cranking the winch, and in fact cranking wouldn't work, because of the high lead going onto the drum. Here, the winch is only used as a snubber, and the drum moves a fraction of a turn at most before I unwind and rewrap the halyard.

Final main luff tension is then set using a 4:1 downhaul to move the sliding gooseneck.

For tensioning the jib halyard, I do have a cabin top winch just aft of the port set of clutches.

Photos of my cabin top running rigging are available upon request.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 15:45:49

The cheapest solution, it seems to me, is to bring a fat friend sailing with you!

Brooke

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 16:10:03

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The cheapest solution, it seems to me, is to bring a fat friend sailing with you!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
...or to lose a lot of weight so as to not counterbalance the motor when going forward. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 12/09/2002 16:10:41

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 16:36:57

One trick that I've used is to strap a full 5 gallon SunShower to the stern rail above the motor, but its a pain!

If I lost weight then the outboard wouldn't even work<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 16:37:51

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<center>Raising Sails Single-Handed</center>

....Photos of my cabin top running rigging are available upon request.

-- Leon Sisson

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Leon, I'd like to see those.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 23:51:28

<center>Lines Lead Aft</center>

Albert,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Leon, I'd like to see those [photos].<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Here's what I've got right now. I'm sorry for the poor quality of the photos. If anyone needs better ones, let me know, and I'll try to shoot them again.

<img src="http://www.trailersailor.com/uploads/2_c25_afthalyards_02.jpg" border=0>
Figure 1: Port side control lines looking aft.

From inboard to outboard: jib halyard, spinnaker halyard, pole topping lift. Winch is concentric to light fixture above galley. Handrails were moved forward and outboard to clear triple clutches and solar panels.

<img src="http://www.trailersailor.com/uploads/c25_afthalyards_03j.jpg" border=0>
Figure 2: Side view of starboard control lines, looking towards port.

Note that there are two levels of lines going to the stbd deck organizer. The more heavily loaded main halyard and reefing lines are down closest to the deck. (Second reef line not installed when this photo taken.) The more lightly loaded vang, boom topping lift, and cunningham(a.k.a. gooseneck downhaul) are on the upper level. Main clew outhaul pivoting cam cleat (not shown) is located on the boom about 4' aft of gooseneck. Mechanical ratios -- vang=6:1, topping lift=3:1, downhaul=4:1, outhaul=8:1.

<img src="http://www.trailersailor.com/uploads/c25_afthalyards_04j.jpg" border=0>
Figure 3: Starboard clutches & cam cleats, close up view.

All controls are thru-bolted to deck. Teak for 'bridge' parts is 1" thick. Cam cleats are the smallest Harkens with the optional elaborate fairleads. Staggered and angled cam cleat pattern minimizes width of group, while providing unimpeded operation from high side of cockpit on either tack. Clutch levers, when fully opened, are behind and below cam cleats. Note space for optional winch aft of clutches. Topping lift line has a stopper knot to prevent boom from falling into cockpit if accidently released.

Feel free to ask for more info if any of this seems unclear or incomplete.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 01:35:07

Thanks Leon. Looks great. Have you found the solar panels capable of charging/maintaining your batteries?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 07:00:06

Albert,

Thanks for asking about raising the main while single handing. I haven't done that on osmepneo but am planning to after splash day.

osmepneo's main halyard leads aft to cabin, and my knee jerk reaction after reading your question was that that is strongly desirable. As much as possible, I think, you want to avoid going on deck when you are alone (especially if the motor is running and the tiller under autohelm.) And, are also stopped with rope cluthes. As Leon's photos show this is a good arrangement.

I've thought about raising the sail under motor, heading into the wind, and stopping the motor, releasing the main sheet and raising the sail, allowing the boat to go into a safe position, even if it is broadside to the wind. Then when roll out the jib, and sheet both sails in a be off.

I guess this is something I need to experiment with!

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Dennis Pierce
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 08:59:43

I use a Tiller Tamer and run the main sheet aft on the starboard side to raise the sails with some help from the starboard sheet winch. My problem is dropping the main. Tried several variations of a down haul to no avail. Need some ideas here

Dennis Pierce
Gypsy Witch #1719

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 10:42:35

To Dennis: Try dribbling a tablespoon of liquid dishwashing soap on the mainsail slugs when the sail is down and ready to hoist. The soap will act as a lubricant and make both hoisting and lowing much easier.

To Albert: I agree with everyone who's said lead the halyards aft. That in itself will eliminate your "tap dancing" up to the mast.

In addition, consider purchasing a long shaft extension kit for your present engine. These are available for most engines at reasonable prices. With the short shaft, you are sort of asking for problems. If you are caught in rough weather and unable to sail due to a rig or sail failure, your short shaft engine will cavitate as the bow pitches down off each wave. Your water pump will burn up its impeller and your engine will fail when you most need it to run.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 11:25:28

Here is the Tech Tip on my set up for the [url="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/tt008.htm "]lines led aft.[/url]

<img src="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/tt008a.jpg" border=0>

For lowering the mainsail I have been using “Fast Track” it’s a product that cleans and lubes the mainsail track . They give you a device that you can run up and down the track while the mast is up. I also use it on the slugs and it lasts all season.

Leon – do you run the lines from your solar chargers through the deck? If so what fitting did you use? Are they permanently attached?

Underlined words are a HOT link.
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 14:17:26

<center>About The Soar Panels</center>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Have you found the solar panels capable of charging/maintaining your batteries?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>The two approx. 10w flexible panels are more than capable of maintaining my two group 27 flooded deep cycle house bank at the dock. I haven't yet tried to use these panels to recharge the house bank while on an extended trip. The batteries are so large in comparison to my average load, that they easily support a 3 to 4 day mini-cruise with or without recharging while out on the water. At the dock, I have shore power and a Statpower Truecharge 20 Plus (or something like that) smart charger. Also, the engine has an alternator (5A to 10A?) connected to the cranking battery. This winter I'm planning on getting around to installing a pair of 50A battery combiners, so that all three mobile charging sources will automatically charge all three batteries. Rough mental calulations of anticipated energy budget gives me reason to think I might come close to breaking even, electrically speaking, on trips if I show some restraint in using electric accessories.

For a pattern of usage that consisted of the panels soaking in sunlight five or more days a week, combined with a daysail or two, I expect that the soloar panels and engine alternator would be more than adequate, even without the shore power charger. I tend to be an overkill kind of guy, and I don't like having dead batteries.

For what it's worth, on a previous 22' boat with a single group 24 battery, one of these 10w solar panels (but no alternator), and the typical daysailing use described above, I had to add water to the battery every couple of months because of overcharging.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... do you run the lines from your solar chargers through the deck? If so what fitting did you use? Are they permanently attached?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> The UniSolar panels are thru-bolted to the deck. To get their wiring through the deck, I drilled/drum-sanded oval holes large enough to accommodate the attached connectors. These holes (along with the bolt holes) were then coated with epoxy to protect the deck core. After the panels were installed and wires routed, the undersides of the wiring holes were temporarily sealed with tape. The holes were then filled from above with silicone sealant, and the tape removed after that cured. The first one of those I did drips a tiny bit in really heavy rain, and so needs to be redone. (I can see where I left air bubbles in the clear goo on that one.) The second one I did works fine.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:16:03

A quick and brief addition to what everyone has already said. The key to single-handing is having everything possible led aft--halyards, reefing lines, topping lifts, etc. In addition I have a main downhaul. I used a bright red line to avoid confusion (esp when I have crew aboard), and run it aft alongside the main halyard. It makes dropping the mainsail a breeze, esp in a strong wind or a sea. A little silicon spray on the sail slugs, reapplied every three weeks or so, also helps. I have a long shaft motor and no autopilot, so speed is of the essence. Even in a 25 knot wind, my system has worked just fine!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2002 : 09:41:17

Dennis: Besides lubrication (I like McLube for that), I've found that attaching the "dousing line" (or "down-halyard") to the headboard does not work well--it tends to pull the headboard to the side and jam the topmost slug. I don't recall exactly what I did, (you'll understand some day) but I think I shackled it to the topmost slug, giving me a more direct, vertical pull.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Shelby
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2002 : 10:54:23

Dave,

What size line do you use for the "dousing" line?

Shelby

'82 C25, "Third S", #3208, SKSR, Honda, Lake Pleasant, AZ.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2002 : 11:32:38

Last year I had some difficulty lowering the mainsail. Slugs seemed to jamb righ around the mast gate. I haven't lubicated, but will and am wondering about a dousing line. Explain for me how that line is rigged.

Thanks, and in 53 days I'll be sailing!

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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