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Cabintop cheek block next to winch?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 06/13/2011 : 10:11:53

I am hoping I can get your advice on something. My boat came with ratcheted cheek blocks and fair leads next to each winch, apparently installed by one of the previous owners:

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I am trying to figure out what the cheek blocks are used for.

One other thing not shown in the picture is a pair of cam cleats on top the cockpit coaming on either side of the wheel. I believe that these are used for singlehanding in gentle conditions, and I have previously run the genoa sheets from the cars through the fair leads (pictured) back to the cam cleats (not pictured) to singlehand while my wife takes a nap. It's fairly easy to come about without the winches as long as you time it correctly and trim the sheets while the genoa is luffing. If I do it wrong, I just turn to windward a bit, take in some slack, then return to lee.

But when I do this I use the fair leads without using the cheek blocks. The cheek blocks' orientation and location do not seem to do anything except create more friction in this case.

Can any of you suggest what these cheek blocks might be for?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/15/2011 05:53:31

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 06/15/2011 : 11:00:12

Looks like the PO may have flown a spinnaker - snatch blocks at the stern cleats for the spin sheets, then run forward through the fairleads and ratchet cheek blocks.
The other possibility, although a bit unorthodox, would be to take 1 turn around the winch with the genoa sheet, go through the cheek block and fairlead, using the ratchet for tension control instead of the winch, and back to your cam cleats for singlehanding. however, it looks like the angle from the winch to the cheek block may be off unless the sheet is taken around the winch and the tail run under the incoming line instead of over it. With only one turn around the winch, it shouldn't present a problem.

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/15/2011 11:14:10

Russ.Johnson
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Response Posted - 06/15/2011 : 23:28:56

Rick,

I have never seen this before, but one thought is the cheek blocks might be used for cross-sheeting.

Cross-sheeting allows using one winch for both port and starboard sheets.
Let's say you're on a starboard tack and want to change to port tack.
The port sheet is through the port cheek block to the port winch.
The starboard sheet is though the starboard cheek block and loose.

During the tack, release the port sheet with one hand then and put the starboard sheet on the port winch with the other hand. This allows the crew to complete the tack without changing sides.
I've heard about this on double-handed racing teams, but I've haven't seen this on a C250.
This might have been a convenience mod, but that's just a guess.

Russ

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 03:40:28

Are you able task the PO?

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 05:09:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Are you able task the PO?

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The PO had the boat from July-Nov and is totally clueless about sailing. I think the reality failed to match up with his dream. I suspect he would have no idea about these "round thingies" as he probably would call them.

The PPO was much more knowledgeable and had the boat about 3-4 years. However he's very elderly and a little hazy on his memory. In talking to him he seemed to mix this boat up with other boats he owned previously. I've already called him several times about different things, and don't want to wear out my welcome. I don't think he added these blocks, because he said he didn't like the handling characteristics of this boat nearly as much as his prior (much larger and more stable) boat, and hardly used it at all after the first year. (I think health also played a part in his lack of use.) It doesn't sound like he was engaged enough to make upgrades.

There were other prior owners, including someone who was registered here, but I have not contacted them.

While I'm curious about what they were used for, I'm more interested in what I might use them for going forward. Like I said, I've occasionally used the fairleads for leading the genoa sheets back to the cam cleats on the coaming during light breezes. That seems useful for single-handing. But the orientation of the cheek blocks seems strange for this application.

I've never flown a spinnaker, so don't know anything about how to route or trim the sheets. Are these blocks positioned in the right place to give the proper sheeting angles for that? That sounds like the most plausible explanation.

As for the cross-sheeting, that sounds interesting, but the blocks are so much lower than the winches (because of the way the deck slopes off) that I wonder how effective it would be.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 07:01:40

I'm thinking thesse would work well for a drifter (or gennaker or assym you pick your favorite name) light wind sail. Real light sailcloth and really big and not as complicated as a regular spinnaker. BTW, if the PO or PPO had a regular spinnaker, wouldn't there be other evidence of that like a track on the mast?

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 07:23:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I'm thinking thesse would work well for a drifter (or gennaker or assym you pick your favorite name) light wind sail. Real light sailcloth and really big and not as complicated as a regular spinnaker. BTW, if the PO or PPO had a regular spinnaker, wouldn't there be other evidence of that like a track on the mast?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't know nuthin' about no drifters or spinnakers.

Never used one, never had it covered in a course. As for evidence, there is no track on the mast, nor holes where one used to be. But since you mention this, it would seem that the lack of a track means that the blocks were probably not used for a drifter.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 08:26:18

A drifter is flown like a large genoa in very light wind. It can be hoisted with the jib halyard and secured at the tack secured at the bow. the luff is loose and it is sheeted like a genoa. Because of its size, ~170%, it requires sheeting points further aft than the jib track will allow. Since it is only used in very light wind and the sailcloth is very light (> 3/4 oz.), it can be managed without the winch.

A traditional spinaker (symmetrical) needs the other accessories like a spin pole and attachment points on the mast. That's why I think this might have been for an drifter.

BTW, I wish I had bought the one my PO offered me when I had the chance.

Edited by - John Russell on 06/16/2011 08:29:21

Russ.Johnson
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Response Posted - 06/16/2011 : 13:37:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
As for the cross-sheeting, that sounds interesting, but the blocks are so much lower than the winches (because of the way the deck slopes off) that I wonder how effective it would be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I just noticed there is a horn cleat foward of the cheek block.
If the blocks are lower than the winches, then the drifter sheet might have been routed to the block then to the horn cleat and not the winch?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 06/17/2011 : 12:35:49

Flying an asym or drifter, it's possible a PO ran the sheets around the outside of the railing post, through the fairlead and then through the cheek block, using the ratchet to take the load on the sheet. It's also possible the PO used the cheek blocks to cross-sheet the genoa. (cross-sheeting: running the genoa sheet through the genoa fairlead, through the ratchet cheek block, then across the cockpit to the high side winch.) Hard to say without more pics.
Does the jib sheet run clearly from the jib fairlead to the cheek block without rubbing against the head of the block?

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/17/2011 12:46:47

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/19/2011 : 15:24:57

Thanks for all the comments. I took a few more pictures to try to address some of your questions.

Here are port side and starboard side. You can see that the port side does not have a horn cleat in the same place as the starboard cleat. It's slightly further away, and is currently used to secure the furling line. In case you're curious, the little clothesline through the starboard cleat is a little snubber line that I set up to keep the boat from constantly rubbing against the port side fenders along the finger pier. It's designed to be flexible enough and flimsy enough that in heavy weather it will allow the boat to rub on the fenders (if necessary it would break before pulling the cleat off the cabin roof), but the 99% of the time that there is calm weather it keeps the boat gently pulled away from the finger pier:

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Here you can see that running a line from the track car to the block, then to the fairlead is not a viable path due to severe rubbing of the line against the head of the cheek block. It also looks like there would be friction against the head if a jib sheet was run around the block for cross sheeting.
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Here you can also see the running a spin sheet outside the railing and through the fairlead does not appear to be a viable path either:

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Any other ideas from these pics?

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 06/19/2011 : 16:19:22

I think that there must have been a block or something aft, perhaps as far back as the aft stanchion/seat posts. This would allow for the drifter sheet to come all the way back, turn at the block under the seat back forward through the fairlead, turn at the cheek block and make use of the winch. Seems like an awful light of work but it would allow for good sheeting for a very large sail.

Given the angle of the fairlead, it would likely have worked with a block on the lower side of the midship stanchions as well.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/19/2011 : 19:15:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I think that there must have been a block or something aft, perhaps as far back as the aft stanchion/seat posts. This would allow for the drifter sheet to come all the way back, turn at the block under the seat back forward through the fairlead, turn at the cheek block and make use of the winch. Seems like an awful light of work but it would allow for good sheeting for a very large sail.

Given the angle of the fairlead, it would likely have worked with a block on the lower side of the midship stanchions as well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Good points, and with that arrangement the fairlead, cheek block, and winch all line up properly. So that seems to be the most plusible.

I already mentioned that there is a freely pivoting cam cleat on the coaming. (You can see it on my current profile pic.) Is it possible that a drifter sheet could go all the way back there, then led forward through the fairlead, block, to the winch? If a drifter is only used in very light winds, why us the winch needed? Wouldn't manually pulling the sheet through the cam cleat be enough?

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 06/20/2011 : 06:04:53

Could you take the jib sheets from the jib track to the winch to the fairlead and back to the cam cleat for singlehanding? Seems like the angle from the winch to the cheek block might be a little steep though.Might work if you wrapped the winch from from top to bottom???????????????????? I'd worry about overwrapping the sheet doing that. Where does the fairlead "lead" to? Assume a straight line from the top of the block through the fairlead to a point on the coaming. I'd assume the installer would have attempted to make it a straight line to somewhere or not bother with the thing at all.

Obviously, I'm just thinking out loud here but, the fairlead looks like it would just be in the way. You could probably just come back to the cam cleat right off the cheek block.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/20/2011 : 10:13:24

The few times I've used the cam cleats for singlehanding the genny sheets from behind the wheel, I routed the sheets from the track car through the fairlead and back to the cam cleat. I bypassed the winch and cheek block (which is why I was wondering what it was for). This has been useful in gentle breezes, though it fails to explain why the additional tackle was added.

You are right, the cheek block is really too low to do a wrap of the genny sheets around the winch before going through the block, and going through the cheek block without the winch rubs the head of the block. Also, any use of the winch in this application would cause too much friction on the genny sheets when releasing them. I'd have to go forward to free the sheets from the winch, which eliminates any benefit of single-handing from the wheel.

I haven't been to the boat to verify this, but I suspect that the block and fairlead would line up perfectly with a block attached to the aft "leg" of the two-legged midships railing - although there's no sign that there was ever any ground tackle there. The fairlead makes sense in this case because it prevents chafe against the cabin top. So my guess is that this extra ground tackle was added for a drifter, and the sheet went though a rear block (now missing), forward to the fairlead, around the cheek block and to the winch. That seems to be a good, non-fouling path.

I have no real interest in a drifter right now, but the extra tackle does make me curious to try one.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/20/2011 10:17:10

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 06/24/2011 : 19:40:40

This week I noticed one thing about these cheek blocks that gave a strong hint of what they were used for. Note in the pics above that the port block is located a few inches forward of the starboard one (port is well into the non-skid area, but starboard is right at the edge of the non-skid area). Since both winches are ratcheted in the same direction, this offset of the blocks is needed to aligned the tensioned sheets into the working side of the winch. So these are almost certainly meant to feed a drifter sheet to the winch, as opposed to routing the genoa sheet to the cockpit.

However, I am still unclear of the use of the cam cleats on the coaming on either side of the wheel.

Edited by - on

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