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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Forward ballast & motor depth

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/01/2011 : 13:32:41

Moved from another thread:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">John, let me first apologize for my post, I dont mean to hyjack. Russell, I just bought a new Honda 8 XL which I mount in the well. It seems to me there is at least 4+ inches between water and anti-ventilation plate. But it just does not seem adequate as I do ocean sailing. I have looked at others photos who have used a motor mount and my water line seems to be same as those but no where near David G's 1.6'!
John, you mentioned having several bags of rock in bow which I as well have. I am now just wondering if I remove all or several bags, I will add several inches in the stern, hence lowering the motor even lower but boat ride higher.
I am concerned with this as my mechanic questioned the water line height may have caused the damage to my lower unit which did additional damage. The motor was only 6yrs old and I had it serviced every year. The repair would have been about 1/2 cost of new one. I obviously opted to new.
This weekend, I plan to remove a few bags or the rock and see what happens.
Steve A<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve, I'm sorry to say, I think this is gonna involve more boat units. If you remove the forward ballast, the stern will sit lower. BUT (that's BIG but) the boat won't sail on her lines. I think it will be quicker to round up and harder to tack due to the windage of the higher freeboard up front.

I think your solution will be to spend more money. Isn't that always the case? Get a motor mount that will lower the motor into the water and retract it while sailing or in the slip. Here's one with 15.5" vertical travel.

Can be had at [url="http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|294|314561&id=524175"]Defender Marine[/url] for $369.99 plus shipping.

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - John Russell on 08/01/2011 13:43:30

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 07:00:38

John, valid comments-and thanks for the new thread. I never liked the aspects of the high freeboard including the quick rounding up, which she still does in my eye, and coming into my slip somewhat blindly.
That said, my concern with a motor mount is that my slip is in a narrow fairway, at least to those inexperienced boaters-motor and sail- in my marina.(Look at the pic below, its not that narrow at all!) I have already had one hit(and run)my outboard several months ago.
Iam not an expert but this may in fact have caused the recent lower unit damage and my need to replace the motor. I had completely forgot about being struck until this post jogged my memory. I will have to ask my mechanic.
So as you can see, I have concerns about the mount which would further extend the motor out. Since I have one of the smallest boats in my marina compared to the rest, I think those backing out don't give me much thought for concern.
I had thought about backing into slip, even though there is a rule at my marina not to, for whatever unknown reason, my concern is two fold-1. my outboard more easily susceptible for theft as its at the dock and 2. now the bow is susceptible to being hit.
I will double check the number of bags of rock I have under v-berth. I think its 4 or 5. I might remove one, then two to see if it makes any diference in the motor depth. My mechanic is at least now aware of the problem and will check that area of the outboard at my annual servicing. Thanks,
Steve A

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 08:58:12

If you get a lift with ENOUGH lift, it might be able to pull the prop out of water. I'm in a similar situation, mine sticks out into the fairway that leads to the travelift well. When some of the big guys go by, I wonder.

Having said that, if you can lift it straight up, you won't have to tilt it. Mine comes up but does not clear the water. (Ventilation plate out, prop still in) I've never measured the amount of lift, though. I don't think it's 15 inches from top to bottom. I think mine is the shorter one. I still don't tilt it because of the gymnastics required to get at the release and for the same worry you have.

I seem to be rambling here, sorry. My point is, when I lift the motor it doesn't stick out as far as yours already does.

I don't think removing the forward ballast will get you what you're looking for.

Edited by - John Russell on 08/02/2011 08:59:55

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 09:04:59

Don't forget that your front hatch may leak into the v-berth if your bow rides high.

As for rounding up with bow high, couldn't this be compensated by raking your mast forward slightly? In other words, reduce rake back to 4" after removing ballast.

I'm not sure I buy the freeboard argument. If your bow rides high, you might increase lee helm, causing less rounding up, not more.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 09:22:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 I'm not sure I buy the freeboard argument. If your bow rides high, you might increase lee helm, causing less rounding up, not more.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think you're right. Don't know what I was a-thinkin' afore

Edited by - on

Dana Point Bob
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2011 : 15:09:57

Same thing happened with me, motor got hit to the tune of$500 in repairs. What I did was to go to Lowes and buy a plastic trash can, for about $15, attached lines to it and with the motor raised, put it around the motor and then lowered the motor back into the water.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2011 : 13:03:00

Bob, that's one way to skin a cat, as they say. I had not considered that but did think about an outdoor camera. A little more expensive but at least I would catch the SOB.
Steve A

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2011 : 14:24:12

One of the guys I sail with here has a Capri 26 and has to raise the motor up high. He painted the skeg red for extra visibility.
As an alternative to the trash can angle, if you have to raise the motor up high and it sticks out into the fairway, why not get an orange 5 gal bucket from HD, slip it over the prop and secure it to the stern railing? It will be a lot more visible to passing boats.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2011 : 17:11:58

If you put the bucket over it, just lower it back into the water and keep it dry.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2011 : 18:31:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 If you put the bucket over it, just lower it back into the water and keep it dry.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

At least until it rains!

Something we here in Texas haven't seen in a long time!

Edited by - GaryB on 08/08/2011 18:32:59

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2011 : 05:50:04

quote: "As for rounding up with bow high, couldn't this be compensated by raking your mast forward slightly? In other words, reduce rake back to 4" after removing ballast."

The normal rules of sail boat trim don't describe fully the situation with the C250. For example, the 250 can still experience rounding up if it heels too much under jib only. Such is a clue that the problem is not sail plan balance but rather is hull balance when heeled.

Raking the mast does not seem to correct whatever the hull balance issues are, but balancing forward does help.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2011 : 06:11:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 One of the guys I sail with here has a Capri 26 and has to raise the motor up high. He painted the skeg red for extra visibility.
As an alternative to the trash can angle, if you have to raise the motor up high and it sticks out into the fairway, why not get an orange 5 gal bucket from HD, slip it over the prop and secure it to the stern railing? It will be a lot more visible to passing boats.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In my experience in my rather tight marina, visibility is not the issue when outboards get hit as those doing the hitting almost always see it coming. The fairways in my marina are about a boatlength in width. If outboards on either side are sticking out, it narrows the channel that much more.

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