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Lost docking skills

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/02/2011 : 09:16:23

Am I alone or does everybody go through this. I had a nice morning sail today in advance of this PM's storms. When I came into the slip, it was like I'd never done it before. In my defense, the wind was blowing me away from the slip that I secure the starboard side to but, I've done that in these conditions many times. I was so far away, that I either had to swim for it or back out (quickly as the dock was fast approaching -- See Bristle's Docking rule #1) and try again. I opted for the latter.

I had the same issue the last 2 times into the slip (different wind). Prior to that, I had gotten to the point that I actually asked neighbors not to help because they seemed to just complicate matters. Yesterday, I had to back out 3 times!!!!

Where have my skills gone??????

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 09:46:21

John,
Do you have a midship's cleat to tie off to? Once that cleat's attached to the dock, you can simply power forward (or backward) to warp up against the dock. We use a modified version of the dock-o-matic to hook up, but we're not always successful. Rita has learned to hook the cleat itself with the boat hook, which, while not optimal, at least puts us in control of the boat with respect to the dock. I can then get over the side & get a couple more lines down. This last time was more problematic than normal, we had a stiff northerly wind pushing us away from our dock. The midship's cleat kept us attached while I wrestled with the bow & stern lines.

We struggle with docking every single time we come in, I won't go into specifics, you've all heard me go on about our difficult docking situation.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 10:12:39

<< Where have my skills gone?????? >>

The previous owner of my boat was a pilot, all the way back to F4s in nam. ( Korea before that ) Watching him bring the boat into the slip was like learning a new method. He did not drift in, he brought her in for a landing. I learned a lot just watching him.

I agree with the concept to never approach a dock faster than.. but you also need to establish control in different conditions.

I also think a fly over ( or several ) is a good idea!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 10:33:32

John, I have asked myself many a time as well, whether it be parking or questioning my sailing skills.
I usually pull boat bow in when I return and just back up, make a slight turn to the sea wall, put in forward and head up my fairway to leave. However recently boat was turned around by the my detailers who cleaned and waxed boat. You would think it would be easier to head straight out. Not for me. I really messed up by turning out too late-going forward!- and had to reverse and head back into slip to adjust. Finally got it but it was annoying to say the least. I never have crew assist but felt compelled to have my crew stay at the bow just in case(I hit another boat). Sometimes I just have a brain fart at my old age. What is your excuse?

Steve A

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 10:57:05

John you are not alone. My, rather narrow dock (just under 10' wide) is on the outside bend of a river. Every time I come in it's a new experience depending on how fast the current is running, which direction the wind is from and how strong it's blowing, and the biggest challange of all... How many people are watching.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 11:58:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 << Where have my skills gone?????? >>

The previous owner of my boat was a pilot, all the way back to F4s in nam. ( Korea before that ) Watching him bring the boat into the slip was like learning a new method. He did not drift in, he brought her in for a landing. I learned a lot just watching him.

I agree with the concept to never approach a dock faster than.. but you also need to establish control in different conditions.

I also think a fly over ( or several ) is a good idea!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is very true. I've always been the guy that ghosts in but sometimes the weather and sea conditions simply won't allow it. Then on top of this I have little trust in my engine. The skipper of the C-27 I race on comes in real hot and then hits reverse to stop his boat. Works for him as his merc 9.9 is more trustworthy than mine. One day I was looking at some other boats on the dock and replicated what they had in terms of a bumper stopping system. Now, if I come in a bit hot, it's no big deal as I have a bumper suspended over the water by lines to catch my bow. Even if I break the bumper that is suspended just above the water, I have another big bumper secured to the dock I can aim for. The end result is much better and more controlled landings with half the stress. I find it especially great when single handing. Here is a diagram of what I set up. The circles and ovals represent bumpers. I also wanted to show off my awesome "Paint" skills.

Best of all? I found all these extra bumpers in my dumpster as well as the lines, took me about 45 minutes to set up and it has taken much of the stress out of docking, much like having a net under the trapeze. I try not to use the safeguards, but they are there if I need them.

Edited by - PCP777 on 08/02/2011 12:01:47

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 12:07:31

Thanks for the moral support. I'm back to the boat tomorrow for a couple of days. Hopefully my lack of docking skills will be just a temporary lapse.

I guess I'm lucky I don't have anybody sharing the slip with me. I have permanent fenders attached to the pilings on the finger and I usually just slight glance off them as I come in and drop my spring line (yes, David, on a midships cleat) but, the last few times............aaaargh.

About that old brain fart......

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 12:51:41

I've never really had any docking skills...not sure if that makes you feel any better.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 13:25:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 John you are not alone. My, rather narrow dock (just under 10' wide) is on the outside bend of a river. Every time I come in it's a new experience depending on how fast the current is running, which direction the wind is from and how strong it's blowing, and the biggest challange of all... How many people are watching.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Renzo for a couple of cold beers I’ll keep my mouth shut

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 13:37:51

Motoring and docking are the worst part of sailing, period.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 14:28:11

I've found that if you really screw up a docking the whole yacht club is watching...

Make a perfect docking and there's no-one around...!

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 16:11:29

[/quote]Renzo for a couple of cold beers I’ll keep my mouth shut

[/quote]
Glen for a couple of cold beers you'd climb the mast one-handed

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 16:38:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 . . . but you also need to establish control in different conditions . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">There's one negative about our wing keel; compared to our previous swing keel, you lose steerage at a considerably slower speed. In fact pulling away from the courtesy dock (parallel parking) is darned difficult since you are starting out at zero knots . . .

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 17:54:18

The docking rule caveat... If you do hit the dock as hard as you are willing to you will have steerage all the way in. I have used VLB (very large bumpers) suspended at the bow end of the slip for just those situations when I need to go in hot.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2011 : 18:15:57

I have a finger dock on one side and another boat on the other. The wind is often crossing the slip, and the tide is almost always crossing--sometimes the same way, and sometimes opposite to the wind. My $+!nkp*+ has much less (meaning almost no) tracking stability compared to the C-25... it just slides sideways in whatever direction I was going before a turn.

Soooo... I, too, have some interesting docking experiences. But I've found that the first step is to approach into either the wind or current--whichever I think will affect me more. About half the time, that means going by my slip, turning around, and coming back before turning in. Then it's a quick midship spring-line, and the engine holds me against the finger while I hop off and secure the other up-wind or up-current dock lines.

And I sometimes break my "Never approach" rule by a little, but (1) this is the 225 hp V6 out of the Honda Pilot, and (2) going bow-in, I'm not going to hurt anything too badly. (The high-thrust Honda 8 on Passage also stopped her like she hit a pillow, so I could come in with a little juice if I needed it.)

Edited by - on

redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 04:36:34

I studied up pretty hard and it changed my docking skills on the powerboat considerably. Then I practiced just docking. I'm to the point now I can pretty much cut the engine and have her sitting still right next to the dock. I showed a friends 30ft power cat (WorldCat) my technique one day and he was pretty shocked as he was having a hard time with it.

With the power boat ( in some instances, and this is a power in method ) you come in at a greater angle to the dock than you think, and reverse turning the props into the dock and it converts the forward motion into a side motion. You hafta know that your engines will not die on reverse. It is not intuitive as your approach does not feel right. I've had several people stand at the dock thinking I've lost my mind and then after shutting it off I quietly hand them a line.

The sailboat is so different as so many other factors are acting on it and reverse is unreliable as well as under powered. Mine will cavitate pretty easily, much less jump up out of the water. I've even blown a head gasket on reverse and had to sail back into my dock without power.

I get as far away from my slip as possible when making the turn in and get lined up as far away as possible, giving me more time to feel the conditions as I approach. Like landing a plane.

But there is no control in some conditions. I can remember coming home in a storm on a Southcoast 22, gunning the engine upwind into the seawall, running to the bow, and jumping off with a line like a wet rat in the driving rain.

A local Sheriff was watching from inside his car. Lots of nice boats in that marina....

Edited by - redeye on 08/03/2011 04:41:00

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 05:21:18

<<>>

That is what I need to do, learn how to drive that thing in reverse.

Probably amuse the neighbors also...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 05:34:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 ...With the power boat ( in some instances, and this is a power in method ) you come in at a greater angle to the dock than you think, and reverse turning the props into the dock and it converts the forward motion into a side motion...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Works nicely at an open dock--not so much in my narrow slip... And don't try that with an inboard (power or sailboat)--the rudder doesn't direct the reverse flow--it turns you harder into the dock. The prop-walk will help some if the dock is on port.

Back to John's problem... How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 05:50:04

That's the issue, Dave. I was ready for Carnegie Hall long ago. Now, I seem to have broken a string on the violin. I'm sure this will pass soon.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 06:00:08

<< And don't try that with an inboard (power or sailboat)--the rudder doesn't direct the reverse flow--it turns you harder into the dock >>

I watched a guy with a Shamrock ( an inboard ) dock and it was just amazing. I couldn't even relate to what he was doing, using the prop walk to position the boat.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 07:16:45

Oh, one thing I didn't mention is that I always swing very wide on my approach so that I'm coming in straight on with zero angle.

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glen
Captain

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Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 07:54:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Renzo for a couple of cold beers I’ll keep my mouth shut

[/quote]
Glen for a couple of cold beers you'd climb the mast one-handed

[/quote]
That’s because I need the other hand to drop the stuff I’m up there to fix.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2011 : 18:05:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 I watched a guy with a Shamrock ( an inboard ) dock and it was just amazing. I couldn't even relate to what he was doing, using the prop walk to position the boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I did something like that today with the Mystic Seaport launch Resolute, which I'm finally piloting... Inboard diesel, funky controls (floor shifter)... Had to "put her to bed" on a dock with no approach space... Swung her sharply to be parallel, and then alternately prop-washed (forward) and prop-walked (in reverse) to move her sideways to the dock. All of that with an audience of tourists up above the dock--a little nerve-wracking.

At least they didn't have score signs (0-10) like the old-timers do on the ICW.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/03/2011 18:07:15

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/04/2011 : 10:02:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glen
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 John you are not alone. My, rather narrow dock (just under 10' wide) is on the outside bend of a river. Every time I come in it's a new experience depending on how fast the current is running, which direction the wind is from and how strong it's blowing, and the biggest challange of all... How many people are watching.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Renzo for a couple of cold beers I’ll keep my mouth shut

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OH GEEZ, and those who have never hit a dock have never run aground too I suppose? I hate docks, I detest them. They have absolutely no purpose other than to try to get you to feck up. Their allies are your neighbors who would rather watch with open mouths than run over and catch your freaking lines! Currents, oposing winds, and sharp pilings round out the whole mess.

My advice while I am still in Oprah mode - haven't been here in a while - DRIVE IT LIKE YOU OWN IT! Get over your bad self. Docking scars are badges of honor! You went somewhere! Do you know the guy with the perfect boat? Me too. Never saw it move.

On my boat I drive in hard and fast and throw it in reverse just as I enter the slip. Grab a midships cleat and we'll bounce against the side a bit. Damn, oh well, that will buff right out.

Ever get a ding in your new car? And you weren't even there! Shape up, enjoy your boo boo and tell your neighbors to put their bumpers out when you leave the dock.

What's the worst that can happen? Relax...

sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2011 : 20:47:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...Get over your bad self. Docking scars are badges of honor! You went somewhere! Do you know the guy with the perfect boat? Me too. Never saw it move...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Word!

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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Response Posted - 08/05/2011 : 05:55:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glen
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 John you are not alone. My, rather narrow dock (just under 10' wide) is on the outside bend of a river. Every time I come in it's a new experience depending on how fast the current is running, which direction the wind is from and how strong it's blowing, and the biggest challange of all... How many people are watching.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Renzo for a couple of cold beers I’ll keep my mouth shut

Edited by - on

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